MOTO-NZ finally come up with something for all our money

[swbarnett]

Now they are advertising for the role of chair person - who wants to work 60 days (20 days of meetings + prep) of the year and get paid $60,000.
Sounds pretty good to me - I wouldn't mind taking the small pay cut to get most of the year off work.

You don't need to take a pay cut. Just take 60days leave a year leave pay.

[Berries]

Now they are advertising for the role of chair person - who wants to work 60 days (20 days of meetings + prep) of the year and get paid $60,000.

That is quite a few bundles of $30. Glad it isn't being wasted.


[Hit head against wall fucking hard smilie]

[Conquiztador]

Now they are advertising for the role of chair person - who wants to work 60 days (20 days of meetings + prep) of the year and get paid $60,000.
Sounds pretty good to me - I wouldn't mind taking the small pay cut to get most of the year off work.

Sorry to burst the bubble, but the pay is $850/day estimated at max 24 days of work/year. That makes max $20,400/year. There is added repayment of travel costs etc. So you will need a second income from somewhere.

[StoneY]

Can we have a joint chair, Stoney and Katman


Talk about ensuring nothing is ever achieved but by hell the meeting would be fun to watch.

I disagree.... plenty would be achieved.... katman would bleed and we would get new road furniture and less fucking number crunching bullshit like GM kept focusing on

... well now that would be interesting!

Yes... indeed it would, bring your popcorn and first aid kit.

[Flip]

A big fucking fat ZERO is what moto-nz have done for biker safety in NZ.

What a waste of thirty bucks.

At least ACC can say they have listened to the biker community?

[MrKiwi]

The entire "partial responsibility - full responsibility" thing is an old statistical trick to make a group seem to be more at fault than they really are. When I did math we called it "shifting the denominator". Its a cunning trick to give you the result you want...

In my opinion, your view above is rubbish if by it you mean to imply that is always the case. It's a fob off when the results are not as you want them.

I've analysed the numbers, time and time again as have lots of other people. Even allowing for errors and rounding and poor data collection, the stats are not good. We bikers can, and should do better. Attempting to shift the blame onto car drivers all or most of the time is denial of the obvious.

But I suspect we will have to agree to disagree.

[MrKiwi]

I disagree.... plenty would be achieved.... katman would bleed and we would get new road furniture and less fucking number crunching bullshit like GM kept focusing on



Yes... indeed it would, bring your popcorn and first aid kit.

Popcorn ready and waiting...

[bogan]

I've analysed the numbers, time and time again as have lots of other people.

That's nice, can you do something about them now? How many years worth of MSL is now in a slush fund somewhere?

[oneofsix]

That's nice, can you do something about them now? How many years worth of MSL is now in a slush fund somewhere?

Don't be silly. They are still in the blame the biker mode. The airline industry was here about half a centuary ago and then they realised that instead of blaming the pilots that if they fixed the thigns around the pilot the pilots made less mistakes or at least their mistakes were survivable. The difference of course is that if the airline industry didn't fix their shit there would be no passengers and therefore no industry whereas with bikers the more they blame them the more ACC they can charge them.

[MrKiwi]

Don't be silly. They are still in the blame the biker mode. The airline industry was here about half a centuary ago and then they realised that instead of blaming the pilots that if they fixed the thigns around the pilot the pilots made less mistakes or at least their mistakes were survivable. The difference of course is that if the airline industry didn't fix their shit there would be no passengers and therefore no industry whereas with bikers the more they blame them the more ACC they can charge them.

Who is in blame the biker mode. Not me. I said as bikers we can do more and I said as bikers if we try and shift the blame totally onto other road users we are in denial about the obvious. I did not say other road users are blameless. Far from it.

If you look at the accident stats for serious injuries and fatalities across the urban and rural environment, about 30% of accidents do not involve other vehicles. Of the accidents that involve multiple vehicles at least half of them (probably more truth be told) the principle fault is the biker, the rest lie with cars. Katman was right in that respect (at least with my understanding of the accidents stats).

However, that picture changes quite a lot if you look at all accidents (minor in addition to serious and fatal). There are a lot more minor accidents reported and about 80% of those do not relate to speed, alcohol, drugs or rider fault. So at least at the minor end of the scale we riders are doing well, other road users are not.

So when people start quoting stats, it pays to ask what accidents the stats relate too.

[MSTRS:Me]

So when people start quoting stats, it pays to ask what accidents the stats relate too.

ACC (and their subsidiaries) are only interested in those accidents that 'cost them money'. Therefore your words above were never truer...

[Blackbird]

Mr Kiwi is right on the money

No official body seems willing to grasp the real issue of raising riding standards - it's the only thing which is going to make a measurable difference to the accident statistics. If this forum is a genuine reflection of the motorcycling population, the average rider is probably lukewarm too. The old saying about the definition of insanity.... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results was never more true.

[davereid]

Of the accidents that involve multiple vehicles at least half of them (probably more truth be told) the principle fault is the biker, the rest lie with cars.

I'd be interested in seeing that data. The data I have does not breakdown into subsets of serious or not serious accidents. Although it would be a good bet that non-serious accidents don't get recorded anywhere.

However, the MOT figures are "motorcyclist primarily responsible for multiple vehicle crash = 23%".

And I stand by my statement that MOT and ACC shift the denominator, and cherry pick data sets to get the outcome they want.

I read Gareth Morgans rant about "I'm an economist and I know everything and I checked the figures and bikers are naughty naughty people".

I will give Gareth the benefit of the doubt, and assume he was given cherry picked data, and was simply to lazy to cross check it.

As a simple cross check would show bikers are sometimes very bad, often average and overall better than car drivers, but are always vulnerable.

Motorcyclists are primarily responsible for only 33% of single vehicle crashes and 23% of multiple vehicle crashes.

Whats the bet that Car drivers are responsible for virtually 100% of their single vehicle and multiple vehicle crashes. And thats shifting the denominator right back at ya.

[bogan]

The old saying about the definition of insanity.... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results was never more true.

Yeh, but doing nothing over and over again like these muppets is even worse, shirley?

iirc 150 bucks of mine is what they have before I stopped paying rego, you can get a nice pair of gloves for that. Keep my fingers warm and dry, enhanced feel, leading to overall control benefits in some situations. The same cannot be said for the metric fuckton of nothing delivered so far.

[oneofsix]

Mr Kiwi is right on the money

No official body seems willing to grasp the real issue of raising riding standards - it's the only thing which is going to make a measurable difference to the accident statistics. If this forum is a genuine reflection of the motorcycling population, the average rider is probably lukewarm too. The old saying about the definition of insanity.... doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results was never more true.

Yes Mr Kiwi and co (which I suspect includes you) is right on OUR money.

As for doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results - from the beginning of motorcycling it has been blame the biker but even if every biker was Peter Perfect there would still be the stats to say they were their own worst enemies because that is the way humans like it, blame the minority. Perfect airline pilots still crash, still technically 'at fault' but by dealing with contributing factors the industry has been made safer. A couple of off the top of my head examples; Instead of rumble strips on fog lines and next to central WRBs, these things even flick the wheels of 4x4s, now about setting them back off the road so correction of the awake driver can happen before them rather than affecting a driver that is still 'on the road', ensure the crap from roadworks is swepted up before the crew leaves.