Stuff.co.nz Blackspots database

[paturoa]

Stuff have gone live with an interactive online tool for blackspots. http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/blackspots

Interestingly you can download a csv file and do interesting pivot tables in excel. I'm not sure what the Most Vunerable field actually means (suspect I'll have to read the detail)

Anyway have a look at this data which was quite easy to generate:

most-vunerable	motor cyclist
Row Labels	Sum of deaths	Sum of serious	Sum of minor
a single vehicle	45	479	23
bend-lost control/head on	38	312	17
miscellaneous	0	6	0
overtaking	0	12	0
rear end/obstruction	2	55	1
straight-lost control/head on	5	94	5
multi vehicle	77	622	86
bend-lost control/head on	27	81	18
crossing/turning	30	319	28
miscellaneous	1	2	0
overtaking	7	66	13
rear end/obstruction	9	131	19
straight-lost control/head on	3	23	8
Grand Total	122	1101	109

Looks like overtaking is the way! Seriously add together the bends and crossing / turning and the 80 / 20 rule is starting to show out. What was the cause of the crash is'nt really there.

[Hitcher]

Gotta love meaningless data. Was the moon in the seventh house and did Jupiter align with Mars?

[FJRider]

Black spots are where idiots crash.

[Brian d marge]

Well it does give a clue to how you will meet said idiots

Stephen

[ellipsis]

...a pirate is somewhat freaked by 'the black spot' too, I think...I don't really know any real pirates so I can't verify this either...yet again...

[paturoa]

Gotta love meaningless data. Was the moon in the seventh house and did Jupiter align with Mars?

No data is meaningless (assuming accuracy), it is the value / relevance of it and how we get get information from it that you can love!

F'instance (like that one?), if you'd asked me to guess the spread of single vehicle bins, I would have guessed 90% or more, were going to be corners rather than 67%.

[paturoa]

Black spots are where idiots crash.

Yes for single vehicle, and I suspect that we'd debate the idiot ratio for multi vehicle bins.

[paturoa]

...a pirate is somewhat freaked by 'the black spot' too, I think...I don't really know any real pirates so I can't verify this either...yet again...

Rrrrrrghhhh.

[paturoa]

Gotta love meaningless data. Was the moon in the seventh house and did Jupiter align with Mars?

There is a nice stretch of wide, straight down hill road locally where the speed camera vans regularly collect some serious revenue! Looking at the map I can see two nearby serious injury prangs, one at an intersection and the other car vs pedestrian. However when I look at other parts of the map in the general there are areas with more prangs that I've never seen a speed camera vans.

[rastuscat]

Causes of crashes can be analyzed to establish factors.

Gross factors can be categorized as behavioral or locational.

E.g. A long straight road with a hill crest leading to a cliff can easily be identified as a crash waiting to happen. It's clearly locational. On the other hand, a driver turns right across the path of an oncoming vehicle on a clear day with clear sight lines, this is a behavioral issue.

The two main categories of bike crashes are

1. Crossing and turning
2. Loss of control on a bend

Of course there are others, but these make up the vast majority.

The trouble with the crossing and turning stat is that it doesn't show whether it was the biker or the car driver was the one not giving way. It's just a gross stat. We can assume its the car drivers, coz we are bikers, but it's not certain.

Loss of control on a bend, well, call it too fast, poor braking, poor entry line, weight movement, call it what you like, it happens.

The one factor FOR FREE RIGHT NOW that I can control is my own riding. It's one thing that influences either locational crashes or behavioral crashes. Riding defensively reduces my chances of being involved in either category. Doesn't eliminate it, reduces my chances.

Of course, if I'm going to have a crash I'm better off wearing decent gear. Given that I can't predict when a crash is going to happen, I try to wear good gear all the time. Folk in Christchurch learned that it's better to have insurance BEFORE the earthquake.

Just a thought.

[paturoa]

Folk in Christchurch learned that it's better to have insurance BEFORE the earthquake.

Just a thought.

A good way of putting it for ATGATT. For the crash stats, it extends to how we ride too.

[Hitcher]

A good way of putting it for ATGATT.

Really? ATGATT can only be proveable if accident trials are set up where exactly the same circumstances unfold for riders wearing varying types and qualities of "protective" equipment.

Fact: Motorcyclists will have accidents that put their health at risk.
Fact: Protective equipment can help mitigate the severity or effects of motorcycle accidents.
Fact: Useful protective equipment should remain connected to a rider in a way that does not make it harmful (e.g. securely fitted helmet; securely fitted boots; skin covered by material that isn't frivolously abradable)

It is at that point that I depart from the ATGATTers, many of whom believe:

• Protective equipment can reduce motorcycle accidents (e.g. fluoro vests). Clearly it cannot, and any overconfidence generated is in itself dangerous.
• The more protective equipment that's worn the safer a rider will be (e.g. armour; back protectors; only leather; neck braces; airbag jackets). These views are a bit like those Facebook stories about friends of friends who had their MS cured by stopping drinking products containing aspartame; or how chemtrails released by governments from high-flying aircraft subjugate the masses beneath. Unscientific, unprovable nonsense.

Riders should decide what's appropriate for them, bearing in mind the facts.

I am a supporter of religious freedom. ATGATTERs can believe whatever they want but should not claim to be the holders of The Truth.

[Paul in NZ]

I just thought I'd avoid black spots - they are obviously as slippery as a vasolined manhole cover after a diesel spill. Fotunately all my spot are red and throbbing...

[paturoa]

Really? ATGATT can only be proveable if accident trials are set up where exactly the same circumstances unfold for riders wearing varying types and qualities of "protective" equipment.

Fact: Motorcyclists will have accidents that put their health at risk.
Fact: Protective equipment can help mitigate the severity or effects of motorcycle accidents.
Fact: Useful protective equipment should remain connected to a rider in a way that does not make it harmful (e.g. securely fitted helmet; securely fitted boots; skin covered by material that isn't frivolously abradable)

It is at that point that I depart from the ATGATTers, many of whom believe:

• Protective equipment can reduce motorcycle accidents (e.g. fluoro vests). Clearly it cannot, and any overconfidence generated is in itself dangerous.
• The more protective equipment that's worn the safer a rider will be (e.g. armour; back protectors; only leather; neck braces; airbag jackets). These views are a bit like those Facebook stories about friends of friends who had their MS cured by stopping drinking products containing aspartame; or how chemtrails released by governments from high-flying aircraft subjugate the masses beneath. Unscientific, unprovable nonsense.

Riders should decide what's appropriate for them, bearing in mind the facts.

I am a supporter of religious freedom. ATGATTERs can believe whatever they want but should not claim to be the holders of The Truth.

Yes really.

Not sure how or why you've included hi-vis as ATGATT. I don't consider it protective gear, any more than say riding with your headlight on. These are preventative measures.

Oh a new acronym ATPMATT! The last time I looked, having insurance doesn't prevent earthquakes. However playing the numbers game there will be a number of bins that are avoided or reduced in severity because of hi-vis. Probably bugger all though.


And trolling right back at you. I agree ATTGATTers can't claim to be the holders of The Truth, any more than you can

[FJRider]

Yes for single vehicle, and I suspect that we'd debate the idiot ratio for multi vehicle bins.

I would guess at least ONE idiot is involved in each of those too ...