MOTO-NZ finally come up with something for all our money

[Scuba_Steve]

Do you really need someone to show you how to do it?

I'd like to see you do it too; Keep your bike upright on a corner. I usually have to lean mine.
So I'll bring the popcorn, you bring the bike

[Katman]

I'd like to see you do it too; Keep your bike upright on a corner. I usually have to lean mine.
So I'll bring the popcorn, you bring the bike

Does leaning a bike mean sliding it down the road to you?

[Scuba_Steve]

Does leaning a bike mean sliding it down the road to you?

nope, but leaning isn't "upright" either & you claim you can get round corners "upright" I just said I'd like to see that, assuming you're travelling at any decent speed; after all the Rumutakas is 100km/h zone so 10km/h round the corners doesn't cut it.

[davereid]

Does leaning a bike mean sliding it down the road to you?

Lucky that you are such a good rider you will never fall off.

Me, I have managed over 50 years without hurting myself.

But one day I might fall off. Inconsequential on its own.

Id be much happier if my taxes hadn't been used to put shit on the roads that's almost guaranteed to transform my minor mistake into a body shredding experience.

Especially when the same people that are putting the body shredding shit on the road are wringing their hands (as they pull them out of my pocket) and saying "how can you make you safer ?"

[MSTRS:Me]

I'd be surprised if there wasn't some mechanism in NZ law requiring any govt funded safety initiative to be structured so as to benefit different groups similarly. Fuck knows how you get a specific safety installation actually likely to kill a significant group of taxpayers.

NZTA and/or their predecessor LTSA have a policy re roadsides...no-one who makes a mistake deserves to die because of that mistake. Which is why trees etc are removed near the roadside and why barriers are installed on the outside of corners. Which immediately provides the (likely) cause of death for a rider who 'makes a mistake' or whatever. Nice to know we are so important in their scheme of things.

Just as an aside, for those that don't know, the age-old standard Armco wooden posts have killed a lot of riders over the years. It's just that the new metal ones will do it much more efficiently.

[Ocean1]

And yes, I understand things like 'cost/benefit ratios' - however, I can only guess at how many kilometers of safety fence/rail posts could be made safer by the amount that one human life is valued at.

I sent that to Steven Joyce on April 12, 2010. His reponse was not 'encouraging'. And this fabulous new, friable post continues to be put in on every new or replacement Armco barrier.
What is worse (in some ways) is the posts actually stick up above the W beam - so try sliding along the top or go under. Nasty.
Fucking pricks.

Can't help with the cost of armco, other than some bleating in the UK about a cost of 1000 pounds. Oh, and the cost of the steel itself should be under NZ$150/M.

I did come across this t'other day, though, which makes for interesting reading... http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...tical_life.pdf

So, adding a healthy fudge to the cost of armco itself and an installation cost then a rough guess at an answer to your question might be 6 to 10 kilometers.

[Ocean1]

NZTA and/or their predecessor LTSA have a policy re roadsides...no-one who makes a mistake deserves to die because of that mistake. Which is why trees etc are removed near the roadside and why barriers are installed on the outside of corners. Which immediately provides the (likely) cause of death for a rider who 'makes a mistake' or whatever. Nice to know we are so important in their scheme of things.

They need to cut all those trees down to make the post they plant around the outside of all those corners.

[MSTRS:Me]

Can't help with the cost of armco, other than some bleating in the UK about a cost of 1000 pounds. Oh, and the cost of the steel itself should be under NZ$150/M.

I did come across this t'other day, though, which makes for interesting reading... http://www.transport.govt.nz/researc...tical_life.pdf

So, adding a healthy fudge to the cost of armco itself and an installation cost then a rough guess at an answer to your question might be 6 to 10 kilometers.

Interesting. Thanks for that.
Not counting cheesecutter down the middle for lefthand bends, roadside barriers on righthanders are the ones that present the greatest risk overall to a rider. Seldom is the barrier length more than several hundred metres in those situations, so that's potentially a lot of corners made safer for the price that one human life is 'valued' at.

They need to cut all those trees down to make the post they plant around the outside of all those corners.

No no, cookie boy. The trees are cut down to stop the unfortunate (and others) from directly impacting them in the event of their leaving the road. And for the sake of clearer views of the surrounds. The timber from said trees is used as fuel at the metal smelter to make the ALL METAL Armco which is then installed to stop people inspecting the surrounds any closer than the immediate roadside. Cos nature is dangerous. Sheesh, I thought everyone knew that.

[Ocean1]

Not counting cheesecutter down the middle for lefthand bends, roadside barriers on righthanders are the ones that present the greatest risk overall to a rider. Seldom is the barrier length more than several hundred metres in those situations, so that's potentially a lot of corners made safer for the price that one human life is 'valued' at.

I'd be substantially less grumpy if they deleted all roadside right hand bend barriers where the only danger on that side is the barrier. There's a few of 'em, and the savings made by not installing them in the first place would have damn near paid for 2nd rails on the rest.

[avgas]

Does leaning a bike mean sliding it down the road to you?

Only if your a cool kid like me.

[Zedder]

NZTA and/or their predecessor LTSA have a policy re roadsides...no-one who makes a mistake deserves to die because of that mistake. Which is why trees etc are removed near the roadside and why barriers are installed on the outside of corners. Which immediately provides the (likely) cause of death for a rider who 'makes a mistake' or whatever. Nice to know we are so important in their scheme of things.

Just as an aside, for those that don't know, the age-old standard Armco wooden posts have killed a lot of riders over the years. It's just that the new metal ones will do it much more efficiently.

What's really poor is there's been extensive research done on the types of road barriers causing motorcyclists to come to grief.

It's not like the info is unavailable and in fact, EuroRap (European Road Assessment programme) put out a position paper in 2008 which has not only been very well received in the UK and Europe but retro fitting of roadside barriers had been started in order to it safer for motorcyclists.

Nothing similar has been initiated here to my knowledge though.

[MSTRS:Me]

I'd be substantially less grumpy if they deleted all roadside right hand bend barriers where the only danger on that side is the barrier. There's a few of 'em, and the savings made by not installing them in the first place would have damn near paid for 2nd rails on the rest.

How true that is.

What's really poor is there's been extensive research done on the types of road barriers causing motorcyclists to come to grief.

It's not like the info is unavailable and in fact, EuroRap (European Road Assessment programme) put out a position paper in 2008 which has not only been very well received in the UK and Europe but retro fitting of roadside barriers had been started in order to it safer for motorcyclists.

Nothing similar has been initiated here to my knowledge though.

To hear a Minister of Transport (Joyce, and Labour's Duynhoven) speak of research, one could be forgiven for believing they live on another planet.
I am convinced that when one of them can not argue with a premise, then 'lack of research' is cited as the reason for not doing what is self-evident.
Joyce even went so far as to tell me that his advice is "a bottom rail would cause cars to ride up and over the Armco, thereby negating the safety aspect of the structure".

[Conquiztador]

Anyone know who got the advertised position as the chair of MOTO-NZ?

[Kickaha]

Joyce even went so far as to tell me that his advice is "a bottom rail would cause cars to ride up and over the Armco, thereby negating the safety aspect of the structure".

Ok I didn't bother translating this but a guy I know had it up on his facebook page
http://www.motociclismo.it/guardrail...uri-moto-54562

I fail to see how something like this could cause a car to " ride up and over the Armco" I cant really see how anything short of a ramp would

[Ocean1]

I fail to see how something like this could cause a car to " ride up and over the Armco" I cant really see how anything short of a ramp would

Could probably make an arguement for it, based on dual armco rails. Be so little in it the numbers probably wouldn't prove anything one way or the other.

Anyway, that's not a second armco rail, it's one of several similar add-ons, mostly made of recycled plastic being fitted to barriers all over Europe to prevent the posts killing bikers. It's much less stiff than a metal rail, so even less likely to cause a car to ride over the barrier.

Besides, if he's worried about traffic escaping over and under barriers he'd be far better looking at the history of such incidents where WRB is installed. Sports cars routinely go under them and anything of any tonnage more or less just ignores it. I passed one WRB breach a few months ago where tyre marks extended a good 3 metres into the opposing lane.