MOTO-NZ finally come up with something for all our money

[swbarnett]

tyre marks extended a good 3 metres into the opposing lane.

Was this 3m past the original positioin of the WRB or was there a good meter or two of median first?

WRB are designed to deform up to 3m in either direction. The theory being that this will save the occupents from a sudden stop. In my observations this is totally ignored in most installations; the opposing lane is well within the deformation range.

[Ocean1]

Was this 3m past the original positioin of the WRB or was there a good meter or two of median first?

WRB are designed to deform up to 3m in either direction. The theory being that this will save the occupents from a sudden stop. In my observations this is totally ignored in most installations; the opposing lane is well within the deformation range.

Was a very small medium, and I didn't get out and measure it but the tyre marks reached about half way across the opposing lane. I've read one manufacturer's recommendation of a 7 metre medium for WRB. And while it's energy absorbant properties is what gives the sales idiots something to impress the natives with the obvious issues around the corespondingly wide mediums required just isn't mentioned. Our roads just aren't wide enough to comply with that particular spec', and the cost of widening them completely obliterates the already very slight short term cost advantage WRB haas over the alternatives, so everyone just ignores it.

The fact is the deflection of WRB varies exponentially with any increase of both mass and aproach angle, if WRB is designed for optimum performance for a family sedan at 15 degrees then a 20 ton flatdeck at 90k and 30 degrees is going to ping the posts like toothpicks and stretch the wire so far as to be completely useless. It's depressing when authorities get shit wrong and simply won't be moved from an entrenched position, out comes the usual political defensive methods and any chance of sense goes out the window.

[swbarnett]

It's depressing when authorities get shit wrong and simply won't be moved from an entrenched position, out comes the usual political defensive methods and any chance of sense goes out the window.

Exactly. I've even heard them say that WRBs were put in because there wasn't room for a concrete barrier

[oneofsix]

Exactly. I've even heard them say that WRBs were put in because there wasn't room for a concrete barrier

That was the exact excuse used on SH1 between Pukerua Bay and Paekakariki. Also that they could be easily taken down for emergency access - like that ever happens (the taking down that is).

WTF these thing are meant to deform by 3m! and that is meant to prevent head ons on the stretch of road above?! Boy were the people of Wellington LIED to, no wonder it wasn't save to reinstate the 100k limit after the "safety improvements". Not only were we told the limit was being temporarily lowered until the "safety improvements" to prevent head ons but now you tell me they wont prevent head ons, perhaps the WRB reduces them

[swbarnett]

perhaps the WRB reduces them

As far as I can see all that is required in most places to reduce the number of hean-on collisions is those flimsy poles that can be driven over quite safely. The intention is one of psychological deterrant. They'd probably be enough to stop all but the most brain-dead drivers from attempting an overtake on a blind corner.

[oneofsix]

As far as I can see all that is required in most places to reduce the number of hean-on collisions is those flimsy poles that can be driven over quite safely. The intention is one of psychological deterrant. They'd probably be enough to stop all but the most brain-dead drivers from attempting an overtake on a blind corner.

My only problem with that is I have seen them is on Grays Rd in Porirua and not on the double yellow section but on the WHITE line. Also placed on centre line of left hand bends (one way is going to be left hand ) a target for noobs to fixate on.

Funnily enough the crash that was the major excuse for the WRB on SH1 was a driver dozing off. The lowered limit and removal of the stopping areas has made this more likely.

[Ocean1]

My only problem with that is I have seen them is on Grays Rd

Traffic calming device. Hate them. Make a point of remaining highly aggravated any time I see 'em on principle.

Have to say they're quite robust, takes a good nudge to dislodge 'em.

Apparently.

[rustic101]

That was the exact excuse used on SH1 between Pukerua Bay and Paekakariki. Also that they could be easily taken down for emergency access - like that ever happens (the taking down that is).

WTF these thing are meant to deform by 3m! and that is meant to prevent head ons on the stretch of road above?! Boy were the people of Wellington LIED to, no wonder it wasn't save to reinstate the 100k limit after the "safety improvements". Not only were we told the limit was being temporarily lowered until the "safety improvements" to prevent head ons but now you tell me they wont prevent head ons, perhaps the WRB reduces them

Since the WRB's have been installed along the Coast Road they have prevented up to 80 potential Head On's, some of which had they not been there would have taken out a number of motorcyclists approaching in the opposite direction. I have yet to see the WRB's flex three metres. I don't know their technical specs so not able to comment but have watched a refrigerated truck and trailer strike and take out 150m section of posts and the encroachment was only around 300mm.

[swbarnett]

Have to say they're quite robust, takes a good nudge to dislodge 'em.

Apparently.

Ran over them after being pushed out of my lane by a large truck and trailer unit on my CB125T in the '80s. Heard the impact but didn't feel it.

[Ocean1]

Since the WRB's have been installed along the Coast Road they have prevented up to 80 potential Head On's, some of which had they not been there would have taken out a number of motorcyclists approaching in the opposite direction.

Up to? Potential?

You mean something's hit the barrier 'prox 80 since they were installed 5 - 6 years ago.

And they've prevented up to exactly the same potential number of head-ons any other barrier design would have done in that time.

I have yet to see the WRB's flex three metres. I don't know their technical specs so not able to comment but have watched a refrigerated truck and trailer strike and take out 150m section of posts and the encroachment was only around 300mm.

I have yet to see a truck take out 150 metres of posts, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. What 150 metres of missing posts does mean is that the wire is then capable of restraining very little, so if that truck encroached just 300mm it certainly wasn't the WRB preventing it going further.

I don't have a problem with barriers in general. Just ones that kill motorcyclists.

[Zedder]

Since the WRB's have been installed along the Coast Road they have prevented up to 80 potential Head On's, some of which had they not been there would have taken out a number of motorcyclists approaching in the opposite direction. I have yet to see the WRB's flex three metres. I don't know their technical specs so not able to comment but have watched a refrigerated truck and trailer strike and take out 150m section of posts and the encroachment was only around 300mm.

The Brefin 4 wire system, which is used in NZ, was tested with a 8000kg truck at 15 degrees approach angle and 80 kmph speed. Results using posts spaced at 3.2 metres, produced a 2.21 metre deflection.

A 2000kg pickup truck at 25 degrees and 100kmph with the same post spacing produced a deflection of 2.4 metres.

[Smifffy]

The question remains: Which individual, or collective group of, riders has benefited from the levy since it was first collected, and how?

Have the stats improved?

For the sake of argument, let's assume the vast majority of riders are fuckwits. Tax the fuckwits. Are there now any less fuckwits? Only the by the number that have been 'taxed off the road' except they're probably still riding anyway.

[Conquiztador]

So here a suggestion...

Most of us tend to agree that MOTO-NZ has not done much for the NZ bike riders. And many would argue that they have done nothing.

Can we do better? How bout if we, the bike riders and users of the roads, put together a "Think-Tank" that came up with say 10 suggestions on how to address the issues in an effective and less time consuming/costly way. Once those 10 suggestions had been aired here on KB and other forums, at meetings, gatherings etc. and we had some feedback, the 10 suggestions would be adjusted if need be. Then packaged nicely and forwarde as a alternative that all/most active riders can agree on. This proposal would be forwarde to all that have something to do with mc riding in NZ. And if we had done our job properly we would hopefully get the buy-in and all/most suggestions would be implemented. MOTO-NZ would be scarpped, the money they have in their coffers given back to riders in one form or another and the $30 fee would be gone.

Yes, I paint a very simple picture here. But is it really that hard? When I read through posts that have been posted on KB re this subject you could forgive me for thinking that here between us KB's we have the solution.

Let's take charge and not be dictated to by ones we do not respect.

Any takers???

[Berries]

Any takers???

Don't crash.




Next.

[Conquiztador]

Don't crash.




Next.

A start. Somehow I think we need more meat on the bones here... But I suppose we need to to start somewhere. So, what is the best suggestion to achieve that? (The "Don't crash").

We could propose that all bikes are removed from the roads. That would solve it and achieve the "don't crash". But somehow I think that might not be the solution... So we need to come up with a bunch of suggestions on how to reduce/eliminate crashes by bikers.

Well, I actually think we already have the solutions. But perhaps the idea here would be to list them??