The fascist regime that made you a moron: Thanks dJonkey

[mashman]

It used to be the feudal system aided and abetted by the church, now it's the corporates aided and abetted by the politicians. Their objective is still the same.

All the more reason to nip this shit in the bud

[scissorhands]

Imagine countries like Indonesia and China. Global fascism is bound to rub off down here, no death squads yet

[Zedder]

All the more reason to nip this shit in the bud

I am however concerned with your Welsh phrase...

[mashman]

I am however concerned with your Welsh phrase...

It's a statement of fact, not a directive

[paturoa]

Merkins have about 315m people and we have 4.5. That is about 70 times our population. We have had 4 domestic bombings in the last 60 years and the yanks have had 83 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrori..._United_States

So if they had the same nutter ratio as us, they should have had about 280 bombings.

Conclusion based on those facts is that we do indeed need some form of proactive intervention to avert the nut jobs.

I've read the thread and there are a variety of views as to do we need any, how, or how much?

Now for an opinion. I and a yes please for domestic "spying", on the conditions that there is a transparent (to the public) oversight and a set of rules including warrants, for economic, nutters (doing harm to people) and organised crime.

[Usarka]

2) vote no confidence in the system, just take a vivid with you and write "it's all bullshit, fuck the corporate world" on your ballot

I drew a cock and balls on the ballot form last election because I couldn't trust any of the pillocks more than anyone else. And I thought it was a sure fire bet, couldn't lose either way!

What pissed me off was the stats afterwards. They listed the number of votes for each party, and then the number of people who did not vote. My eloquently drawn john thomas didn't even get a mention. Facists.

[mashman]

Merkins have about 315m people and we have 4.5. That is about 70 times our population. We have had 4 domestic bombings in the last 60 years and the yanks have had 83 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrori..._United_States

So if they had the same nutter ratio as us, they should have had about 280 bombings.

Conclusion based on those facts is that we do indeed need some form of proactive intervention to avert the nut jobs.

I've read the thread and there are a variety of views as to do we need any, how, or how much?

Now for an opinion. I and a yes please for domestic "spying", on the conditions that there is a transparent (to the public) oversight and a set of rules including warrants, for economic, nutters (doing harm to people) and organised crime.

You'll be ok with chipping people then? Then you'll be ok with cognitive recalibration for all who do not meet the strict definition of a good citizen? Then you'll be ok with being told that your IQ isn't up to anything and you should be chemically sterilised? Then you'll be ok with being put down because you're using up valuable resources?

Spying on economic terrorists eh. Fuck that, let's just go straight to monitoring the leaders of every corporate and government in the world and streaming their lives on the internet 24/7 so that they can be watched. No need for spying then and most likely less extremist economic terrorism. That or just dump the financial system entirely and it won't be a consideration at all.

[paturoa]

You'll be ok with chipping people then? Then you'll be ok with cognitive recalibration for all who do not meet the strict definition of a good citizen? Then you'll be ok with being told that your IQ isn't up to anything and you should be chemically sterilised? Then you'll be ok with being put down because you're using up valuable resources?

Spying on economic terrorists eh. Fuck that, let's just go straight to monitoring the leaders of every corporate and government in the world and streaming their lives on the internet 24/7 so that they can be watched. No need for spying then and most likely less extremist economic terrorism. That or just dump the financial system entirely and it won't be a consideration at all.

Not sure how you got from me being OK for domestic "spying" with clear rules, oversight, transparency and warrants; to chipping people, cognitive recalibration (whatever that is) and chemical sterilisation.

Perhaps you should be chemically sterialised, if low IQ is the criteria?

Trolling aside, there is a small percentage of people out there who are completly evil (aka nutters). You are clear on what you're against, so what are you for. How do you propose that we deal with these people.

"Evil" people are operating in our economy too. They have no morals and would fuck you and me over so that we operate like some of the genuine 3rd world shit holes. So rather than shooting at that too, what is your solution?

[GrayWolf]

If you'd grown up in a Port town - or had anything to do with the shipping industry in NZ you'd realise where Ellipsis is coming from. Given a mandate - or what passes for one - the tories will always go the same way. Look at Key's first term then compare what's happening now....
One fact that Key's lot conveniently forgets when they say they want pay parity with Oz is the very strong unions there which maintain the high pay for the workers.
when I see him come out with something on TV, I'm dead sure that a focus group has given him the assurance it'll be worth votes...he doesn't move unless it's worth something. Teflon man lives....

Ok, Ellipsis grew up in a Port town, as I pointed out elsewhere, my father was a Coal Industry worker, so I grew up in that environment....
Port Workers? When I lived In Invergumboot my neighbour was a docker... And the times he was paid to sit in a smoko room and do nothing by his own admission was almost unbeleivable....
However I digress, in 1991/2 when we migrated here, we shipped some household effects and the car and bike over... We paid for a container and the car was in there with a few effects...bearing in mind this is 20+yrs ago?? To 'unload' the container... which entailed it being on the dock and the vehicle simply being pushed out of the container and into a bonded warehouse 10 metre's away? the 'Dockside cost' was $600. That 'Fee' was PURELY for the dockers to 'unload' the container. and not the other 'Port fess'.
it was CHEAPER for me to.. pay for the container to be transported to the Customs storage yard, get an 'agent' to do the paperwork AND then pay for the container to be shipped back to the dock.

Yeh the Union's certainly make sure they get a 'good rate of pay'

[mashman]

Not sure how you got from me being OK for domestic "spying" with clear rules, oversight, transparency and warrants; to chipping people, cognitive recalibration (whatever that is) and chemical sterilisation.

Perhaps you should be chemically sterialised, if low IQ is the criteria?

Trolling aside, there is a small percentage of people out there who are completly evil (aka nutters). You are clear on what you're against, so what are you for. How do you propose that we deal with these people.

"Evil" people are operating in our economy too. They have no morals and would fuck you and me over so that we operate like some of the genuine 3rd world shit holes. So rather than shooting at that too, what is your solution?

How did we get to where we are today? Coz it ain't gonna stop with your definitions above.

See, you're there already. Praps we should just skip to you wasting resources

How have we found them up til now? Why the sudden urge to tighten the screw given that we've had 4 domestic instances in the last 60 years? Given that these people are successful and otherwise unassuming in many cases, how can you deal with them? Realistically all you can do is to try not to give them a reason to be evil. It ain't like the major terrorist groups haven't got a grievance that has been dismissed or even ignored. There is a reason for why people do these things and it ain't just out of being evil. Not saying there aren't evil folk.

I mentioned my solution above. Dump the financial system and implement some for of Resource Based Economy where goods/services are free to everyone. That'd stop the modern day economic hitmen in their tracks and you could offer the 3rd world a much better lifestyle where budget isn't a constraint. It might even remove the qualms that the crazy's have with the rest of us.

[puddytat]

Its for me the fact that they are able to do what is necessary for their benefit, when required. Meanwhile we are not told anything at fucking all about international trade agreement negotiations that are more powerful than our own domestic laws.Its seemingly o.k for trade agreements to be done secretly because of commercial interests but we the people are a different story. That'll be becuse they really dont give a shit about us really & yet bow to the power of international corporates. We are lucky in some ways that our experts are seemingly incompetent in keeping things secret, at least when it comes to domestic issues...normally it'd result in a dept. been told to get their shit together, but no we change the laws instead.
At what point does protest become illegal? When it suits them & their masters.

On another note.....if you are not happy with the choices available on your voting form, dont deface it with remarks or images that show your dissapointment in the lack of a suitable choice....it'll be simply discarded. The way to show your lack of confidence is to go in & cast a COMPLETELY BLANK voting form....it will be valid still, and will count as a vote of no confidence. If the 30% had done that that'd not got off the couch for what ever reason, JohnCo.would not have the mandate that he reckons he has.
Personally I think that it should be compulsory to vote. Just like having to do a Tax return.

[mashman]

At what point does protest become illegal?

On another note.....if you are not happy with the choices available on your voting form, dont deface it with remarks or images that show your dissapointment in the lack of a suitable choice....it'll be simply discarded. The way to show your lack of confidence is to go in & cast a COMPLETELY BLANK voting form....it will be valid still, and will count as a vote of no confidence. If the 30% had done that that'd not got off the couch for what ever reason, JohnCo.would not have the mandate that he reckons he has.
Personally I think that it should be compulsory to vote. Just like having to do a Tax return.

When you haven't applied for the correct permit

Get your foot off my rights man. I'm already "forced" to register. to that end they should take my not voting for any of them as a vote of no confidence.

[puddytat]

[QUOTE=mashman;How have we found them up til now? Why the sudden urge to tighten the screw given that we've had 4 domestic instances in the last 60 years? .[/QUOTE]

I think its because they realise that some arnt going to sit back & do nothin...When the people lose faith in the process, when they feel that they arnt being listened to or of "no account," then its inevitable that some will stand by their beliefs & go about trying to force change on their terms.

[mashman]

I think its because they realise that some arnt going to sit back & do nothin...When the people lose faith in the process, when they feel that they arnt being listened to or of "no account," then its inevitable that some will stand by their beliefs & go about trying to force change on their terms.

Agreed... and not a tin foil hat in sight. The funny thing is though, those who are calling for that change that realise that they have to use the current system against itself to get the desired result, make their intentions known to as many people as possible. They're not exactly hiding are they?

[puddytat]

Agreed... and not a tin foil hat in sight. The funny thing is though, those who are calling for that change that realise that they have to use the current system against itself to get the desired result, make their intentions known to as many people as possible. They're not exactly hiding are they?

No they certainly arnt ,its the beauty of Democracy!
But at some point the ideal gets lost & politics step in. That & money & Human instinct....

http://www.idea.int/vt/compulsory_voting.cfm doesnt seem to be the answer according to this so I might give up on that one.

Pretty much given up on what can be done with the World as such, but Im passionate about my country & we should be doing all we can to keep it here and not in foreign financial hands.And that the Govt. & its Depts are not fucking corrupt or breaking the Law. Or changing Laws that could effect our civil rights.
Do an Iceland. Weve got a better climate for a start. What are they going to do....threaten us with a WMD? Or just amp up the Weekly Media Drivel .That'd also have the bonus of lowering the dollar....

BrandNZ. Clean & Sustainable.