Action required now! Wire rope barrier planned for Otaki > Forest Lakes

**XP@** · 3rd May 2013, 10:13

I've not been around for a while and it seems like the cheese cutter campaign has lost momentum.

Anyway our friends at NZTA are planning some safety improvements to the road between Otaki and Levin (part of my daily commute). Many of their options make sense and I would suport them, but not all.
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/projects/ota...vin/index.html

The section from Otaki to Forest Lakes is destined to be a long Wire Rope Barrier retrofitted to more or less the existing road. I will be submitting that they use the Safe Hit Posts (like at Peka Peka) in their place as they do a good job of visually separating the sides of the road and are less risk to motorcycles.

There is another section where a Wire Rope Barrier is planned, however the road would be re routed to alongside the railway line and the barrier would be in the centre of a 5m grassed median.

Does anyone have recent ammunition against cheese cutters? if so links would be handy...

Please can you submit your thoughts here:
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/consultation...levin-section/

**sidecar bob** · 3rd May 2013, 10:17

Probably the best defense against them is to pay attention & ride like your life depends on it.
Alternatively, you could hit the front of an oncoming car, so im not entirely sure what the angst is all about.

**Xsannz** · 3rd May 2013, 11:11

In chch the are 4 laning johns rd 80km section and in the completed section is a middle concrete median with said 3 wire cheese cutters.

Now looking at then I don't see the concern the wire they used is about an inch thick braided stuff with a gap of about 30cm between each. If you are wearing protective gear or leathers the most I can see is some pretty nasty bruising / a broken bone but nothing that wouldn't already happen if colliding with a car or another bike.... Its definatly not going to act like a cheese cutter... And if you were going fast enough for it to do so you probably would have been just as worse of hitting anything else..

**GrayWolf** · 3rd May 2013, 11:56

Originally Posted by Xsannz

In chch the are 4 laning johns rd 80km section and in the completed section is a middle concrete median with said 3 wire cheese cutters.

Now looking at then I don't see the concern the wire they used is about an inch thick braided stuff with a gap of about 30cm between each. If you are wearing protective gear or leathers the most I can see is some pretty nasty bruising / a broken bone but nothing that wouldn't already happen if colliding with a car or another bike.... Its definatly not going to act like a cheese cutter... And if you were going fast enough for it to do so you probably would have been just as worse of hitting anything else..

Suggest you do some 'googling', there has already been an incident in NZ of the 'cheese cutter' type. Countries in Europe are REPLACING wire barriers. As usual NZ seems to follow on 20yrs behind and makes the SAME mistakes, rather than looking at the current trend, and saying. "oh yeh, lets cut out the years of finding out they ARE a hazzard".

**sidecar bob** · 3rd May 2013, 12:03

Originally Posted by GrayWolf

Suggest you do some 'googling', there has already been an incident in NZ of the 'cheese cutter' type. Countries in Europe are REPLACING wire barriers. As usual NZ seems to follow on 20yrs behind and makes the SAME mistakes, rather than looking at the current trend, and saying. "oh yeh, lets cut out the years of finding out they ARE a hazzard".

An incident? so one then?? There has also been numerous incidents of bikes hitting oncoming cars. You choose, stationary barrier, or oncoming car doing 100kmh.
Yes, im sure both have the potential to kill, but not hitting anything is the best solution.

**FJRider** · 3rd May 2013, 13:00

Originally Posted by XP@

Does anyone have recent ammunition against cheese cutters? if so links would be handy...

Please can you submit your thoughts here:
http://www.nzta.govt.nz/consultation...levin-section/

Studies were done in Australia in 2000 ...

http://motorcycleminds.org/virtualli...rier_cr201.pdf

But take a look at these barriers ... Well worth investigation into cost.

http://motorcycleminds.org/virtualli...012-3-2009.pdf

Or if that is deemed to expensive ...

http://motorcycleminds.org/virtualli...lRubRailDS.pdf

At the very least ...

http://motorcycleminds.org/virtualli...kCushionDS.pdf

There are other ways ... and this site makes interesting reading ...

http://motorcycleminds.org/?page_id=151

**MSTRS:Me** · 3rd May 2013, 13:41

Originally Posted by Xsannz

Now looking at then I don't see the concern the wire they used is about an inch thick braided stuff with a gap of about 30cm between each. If you are wearing protective gear or leathers the most I can see is some pretty nasty bruising / a broken bone but nothing that wouldn't already happen if colliding with a car or another bike.... Its definatly not going to act like a cheese cutter... And if you were going fast enough for it to do so you probably would have been just as worse of hitting anything else..

Really?
FYI it is not the wire that does the damage...it is the posts. The wire only ENSURES 'you' hit the posts. At speeds of under 70kph, amputations occur, and not more faster means death.

Yes, we all know the oncoming car is a danger, just as that tree etc on the roadside. A continuous barrier ensures there are no gaps to exploit when it's you doing the out-of-lane thing...

**Xsannz** · 3rd May 2013, 14:01

Yeah true... I don't agree with them on the left... But in the centre it makes sense. And in chch they only use them on an island type about a metre wide with the wire rope fence in the middle ... If you hit the island at speed you'd either be airborne over it or lying on you side mid lane against the island.

They make sence mid lane as it stops card and other objects coming across into oncoming lanes within theory.

But on a bend on the left or straight on the left side of the road should be a solid barrier wher there is a drop etc or nothing except marker posts... As most who run wide do on the left and if you run wide on a bend and end up in the oncoming then even a wire wouldn't have helped.

**imdying** · 3rd May 2013, 14:01

Originally Posted by GrayWolf

Suggest you do some 'googling', there has already been an incident in NZ of the 'cheese cutter' type.

Wasn't that some numpty doing a wheelie rather than a legitimate accident though?

**jellywrestler** · 3rd May 2013, 14:06

Originally Posted by Xsannz

Yeah true... I don't agree with them on the left... But in the centre it makes sense.

wait till you see the new armco on the rimutakas on the featherston side, she's a real shredder

**sidecar bob** · 3rd May 2013, 14:24

Originally Posted by imdying

Wasn't that some numpty doing a wheelie rather than a legitimate accident though?

I believe that was the case, combined with a bike that had a weakened chassis from numerous prior wheelies, that failed at a bad time.
I stand to be corrected if this is not in fact the case.

**FJRider** · 3rd May 2013, 14:37

Originally Posted by jellywrestler

wait till you see the new armco on the rimutakas on the featherston side, she's a real shredder

Perhaps it may pay for motorcyclists to make more effort to just stay ON the road. Even if it means slowing down.

Too simple .. ???

**Usarka** · 3rd May 2013, 14:47

Originally Posted by XP@

I've not been around for a while

Yeah you missed it turning all safety and nannerish.

Originally Posted by sidecar bob

Probably the best defense against them is to pay attention & ride like your life depends on it.
Alternatively, you could hit the front of an oncoming car, so im not entirely sure what the angst is all about.

**Gianz** · 3rd May 2013, 17:21

I was impressed in a recent trip to Spain to see that most of the roads I drove in the Pirenee had guardrails with lower barriers designed for bikers.
Maybe we need a Lorenzo in Nz