North Korea v America

[Hinny]

The US were upset with the Solomon Islands for refusing to allow their Tuna boats in but allowing the Russian boats in.
The Solomon Islanders pointed out that the Russians were paying for the privilege of fishing in their economic zone but the Americans had refused to pay.
I guess they thought they had conquered them during WW2 as well.

[oneofsix]

Some say Maori have put paid to that theory these days!

These days it seems to be all about the conquered, it is only current events or modern history that is still written by the victors. That said some of the revisiting of the roman 'history' on the so called barbarians is enlightening.

[oneofsix]

I did read that an ex Japanese soldier was amazed to hear that they were regarded by the Americans and allies as "Highly skilled dangerous jungle fighters", He added that the average Jap soldier was scared shitless of the jungle and the creepie crawlies. Most had never been away from their urban roots in their lives.

Must of had good training then

[Swoop]

15 May 2013: Some 70 percent of North Korean ground forces are within a hundred kilometres of the DMZ (Demilitarized Zone, the border with the south.) This is the main threat to South Korea but two decades of money, fuel and food shortages have greatly reduced North Korean Army capabilities.
Two decades of extreme poverty have done even more damage to the navy and air force. While the North Korean Navy was never meant to be a major factor, the air force was meant to be a crucial element in countering, for a few days at least, the far superior South Korean and American air forces.

The North Koreans have been desperate to maintain and upgrade their air force but have been unable to do much since the 1990s. The last “new” aircraft North Korea was able to obtain were 40 MiG-21s secretly purchased from Kazakhstan in 1999.

Recently South Korea got to see how far gone the North Korean air forces were.

Back in 2010, after North Korea attacked South Korea twice (sinking a corvette with a torpedo and shelling a town on a South Korean island near North Korea), there was a period of extremely high tension on the border. Both Koreas put their armed forces on alert, a higher alert than had been used for decades.

What the South Korean intel analysts were particularly amazed by was the poor performance of the North Korean air force during this hasty mobilization as air patrols were greatly increased. It was known that North Korean pilots had been getting less and less flying time in the past decade, but when ordered into the air on a large scale for this hasty mobilization, the results were amazingly bad. The flying skills of combat pilots were particularly unimpressive, as was the performance of many aircraft (indicating poor maintenance). There were several crashes, and many near misses in the air, and a general sense of confusion among the North Korean Air Force commanders and troops. American and North Korean radars were able to record all this and satellite photos showed the aftermath.

While North Korea was apparently trying to impress, and intimidate South Korea with this display of aerial might, the impact was just the opposite. With the exception of ten MiG-29s, the North Korean air force consists of 1,300 Cold War era Russian and Chinese aircraft, about half of them combat planes.

The Chinese aircraft are knockoffs of older Russian designs, and most of the North Korean fleet consists of aircraft designs that were getting old in the 1970s. The North Korean Air Force training exercise merely confirmed what many South Korean and American intelligence analysts already suspected; that the North Korean Air Force could barely fly, and hardly fight.

The most modern aircraft the North Koreans have are 40 MiG-29s they received in the 1980s, when they were still getting freebies from the Soviet Union. The rest of their combat aircraft are poorly maintained and infrequently used antiques (because of fuel and spare parts shortages). There are 50 MiG-23s, an unreliable 1960s design which few other countries still use.

There are about 190 MiG-21s (40 of them Chinese copies of the Russian design) and about 90 each of F-6s and F-5s (Chinese copies of the MiG-19 and MiG-17, both 1950s designs hardly anyone else uses).

They have 160 bombers and ground attack aircraft, most of them elderly Russian and Chinese designs. The best of this lot are the 32 Su-25s, which are a decent contemporary of the U.S. A-10 ground attack aircraft that has proven itself in Afghanistan and the Caucasus.

The helicopter force is also elderly. The best of them are 20 Russian Mi-24 gunships and 80 American MD-500D smuggled in from Germany in the 1980s.

Perhaps the most dangerous aircraft are 300 AN-2 single engine bi-plane transports. A sturdy Russian aircraft which, although designed in the 1940s, was simple, rugged, popular and remained in production until a decade ago.
Able to carry ten passengers, the North Korean AN-2s have been seen practicing flying low and at night. Since each AN-2 can carry ten soldiers, they are believed to be intended to deliver commandos in South Korea early in any war.

Several thousand of these troops could cause a lot of confusion as South Korea mobilized for war. But in the last five years fuel shortages have meant few AN-2s have been flying. That means the pilots are not really skilled enough to carry off a night operation, especially flying low (to avoid radar) through the mountains separating the two Koreas. Using AN-2s now would lead to a lot of them, if not most of them not making it. Then there is whatever surprises South Korea and the U.S. have developed to counter this daring use of AN-2s.

The North Korean generals are aware of their aircraft deficiencies and have tried to make up for it with a large anti-aircraft system. But they have mostly very old missiles and lots of small-calibre anti-aircraft guns. The U.S. is very good at taking out radars and communications needed to make a nationwide anti-aircraft system work. It comes down to who is better prepared and equipped. The North Koreans might have some secret tricks, but they definitely don’t have the tech or the track record that the U.S. possesses.

To make up for their lack of offensive aircraft North Korea depends increasingly on ballistic missiles. The main weapon here is the liquid fuel SCUD, of which North Korea has about 500 in working order. The big drawback here is that it takes several hours to fuel these missiles.
While this could be done in caves, the North Koreans depend on being able to keep the location of the caves secret. Otherwise they entrances will be bombed early on, leaving the missiles trapped underground and useless until dug out. The North Koreans believe that if they can develop compact and reliable nuclear weapons and equip some of their ballistic missiles with them they will have a reliable weapon to protect the tyrants who run the country.
At the moment, the air force is certainly not able to do the job.

[avgas]

Don't need an Airforce to hit Seoul. Or Nukes for the matter.
NK can shell at about 2700/minute which while not earth shattering - is still horrible for those in rock throwing distance. This is about 50-100 times worse than that which hit Syria.

On a side note - America can now launch its stealth drone (X-47) from a carrier (Truman) just off the coast of Korea. (a first for anyone - see photo)

So hopefully everyone just fucks off and no one attempts to spill pointless blood.

[Swoop]

America can now launch its stealth drone (X-47) from a carrier (Truman) just off the coast of Korea. (a first for anyone - see photo)

Photo?
See the video!

[oneofsix]

Ok so they chucked a bit of expensive hardware off a boat, what about the recovery? or is it now just jetsam?

[Swoop]

Ok so they chucked a bit of expensive hardware off a boat, what about the recovery? or is it now just jetsam?

It landed back at an airfield.
A week or so back the X-47 landed with a tailhook arrested landing on a carrier deck layout (on an airfield though).

The next stage is an actual shipboard landing on the carrier, but this software has already been trialled in an F-18 coming into a fully automated landing.

[imdying]

The next stage is an actual shipboard landing on the carrier, but this software has already been trialled in an F-18 coming into a fully automated landing.

This? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzlFiLuvGeE

[oneofsix]

It landed back at an airfield.
A week or so back the X-47 landed with a tailhook arrested landing on a carrier deck layout (on an airfield though).

The next stage is an actual shipboard landing on the carrier, but this software has already been trialled in an F-18 coming into a fully automated landing.

that's got to be the scary bit, one thing to send it away from you but to have it coming at you?. A city full of people, in the middle of the ocean, with a guided missile coming at them, you would have to praying they get it right, no blue screens at critical moments or software bugs. Can understand why you start with a desert trial, then a plane on full auto with pilot, I presume, so the pilot can at least save the ship if it goes wrong.

[Swoop]

This?

Promo video... CGI.

that's got to be the scary bit, one thing to send it away from you but to have it coming at you?.

I think the scarier bit is the human recognition software in the nose. All of the deck-handling signals from the flight deck crew are programmed into it and it automatically responds in the same way as a human pilot to those hand actions being waved about.

[oneofsix]

I think the scarier bit is the human recognition software in the nose. All of the deck-handling signals from the flight deck crew are programmed into it and it automatically responds in the same way as a human pilot to those hand actions being waved about.

so all the North Koreans have to do is teach their people the signal to wave them off for a go-a-round

[imdying]

Promo video... CGI.

I think that's pretty obvious, but thanks for letting us know

[Swoop]

I think that's pretty obvious, but thanks for letting us know

No worries!

The bit of footage on the flight deck, as it goes for the hook-up of the wire, is really well done. Looks like a F-18 landing that has been modified with the -47 image. A very quick scene, but nevertheless effective!

[imdying]

It's all we have for now

All sorts of shit have hit carriers, so I assume this drone shouldn't be to much trouble if it augers in.