Buckets fuel rule

[richban]

Voted. No.

Why. Its simple. Yes I can use it. But the 2 stoke bikes will gain more of advantage than the 4 strokes. Simple as that.

[Flettner]

Out of interest, what mostly wins these days two or fourstrokes? Do water cooled bikes feature still ?

[husaberg]

yes it bore out to be a good update

Yes it was, but but as i keep saying changing the fuel rules to allow the removal of a key restriction that keeps the planing field relativity level.
Then trying to justify it saying it is because of availability or toxicity is untrue.
Attempting to feign ignorance of the performance enhancing effect on a Air cooled 2 stroke 125 is wrong.
This would also be an advantage to a forced induction bike.
Yes the octane may be similar to a fuel that is legal yet one one uses may be true.
But the octane is not the Major advantage or either is the calorific value otherwise no one would ever use Methanol would they.
The caloric value This is mitigated by the fact high percentage Alcohol fuels run a vastly richer fuel mixture.


Some one mentions mixing your own how can that be a option if the proposed rule change is restricted to Commercially available pump fuel.

Any rule change to the fuel rules that allows for E85 advantages some to a huge extent as it removes the restriction that was placed on the Air cooled 125cc 2 strokes.

I can remember when CNG was being pushed and everyone said...... oh it will be available everywhere in the South Island soon still waiting.

Wouldn't hurt to read this http://news.motorsport.org.nz/search...ent-continues/
and this one http://news.motorsport.org.nz/e85-fuel-approved/ Im not sure how current these articles actually are.

Now I've been trying to find some decent on line info for E85 and air cooled 2 strokes but the infos not there (at least not with my key word searching), just a bunch of hicks talking about oil not mixing, corroded fuel lines etc.
I did find this. Now its a turbo 4 stroke application so the gains are BIG but its a good article for real E85 info http://hioctaneracing.com/blog/2011/...-e85-fuel.html. The power gains for a 125 normally aspirated 2 stroke are minimal. I could get more with the Elf FIM unleaded but it doesn't suit my need no matter what Husaberg may think

Yes FIM unleaded would not suit you need Yet more smoke less mirrors

Thermal loading and the ability to shed heat Kel......
You mean to insinuate that you are unaware that it is the major restrictions on any air cooled two stroke
Then that You are also unaware of the advantage of a high Alcohol content fuel to an air cooled 2 stroke.
You also seem to avoid the availability issue that was one of your initial soap box points....... why?

[crazy man]

Voted. No.

Why. Its simple. Yes I can use it. But the 2 stoke bikes will gain more of advantage than the 4 strokes. Simple as that.

agree there was at least five 2 strokes at the gp that had more power and lighter the the best four strokes..

[crazy man]

Out of interest, what mostly wins these days two or fourstrokes? Do water cooled bikes feature still ?

reliablity is it seems what counts

[richban]

reliablity is it seems what counts

I thought is was being skinny! True that though. to finish first blah blah first you must not eat all the pies.

[TZ350]

Good one .........

[crazy man]

I thought is was being skinny! True that though. to finish first blah blah first you must not eat all the pies.

thats ok then cause l only like KFC

[richban]

thats ok then cause l only like KFC

Well I have just dropped 3 kg with a stomach bug. If you hurry round for a little kiss I am sure you could 2.

[Flettner]

If anyone can remember back far enough, fourstroke 100cc was open including fueling. Methanol / Ethanol and in fact nitro was allowed. I've always wanted to revisit those days with another attempt at supercharged 100 fourstroke ( ban nitro though it's just an engine wrecker !! ). It would need E85 to be viable, when E85's day comes, I'M IN.
Really no one should take any notice of what I say anyway as I'm not a bucket racer and probably shouldn't voice my opinions here I don't want to cause any problems, I'll butt out, move along nothing to see here

[husaberg]

If anyone can remember back far enough, fourstroke 100cc was open including fueling. Methanol / Ethanol and in fact nitro was allowed. I've always wanted to revisit those days with another attempt at supercharged 100 fourstroke ( ban nitro though it's just an engine wrecker !! ). It would need E85 to be viable, when E85's day comes, I'M IN.
Really no one should take any notice of what I say anyway as I'm not a bucket racer and probably shouldn't voice my opinions here I don't want to cause any problems, I'll butt out, move along nothing to see here

Come on Neil, you don't get off that easy, why is it E85 would be a game changer for you? on a forced induction 100cc bike what changes?
Why is it you chose to run an Alcohol mix on the Big air cooled Kawa?

I too remember the old regs but i remember them as ether Alcohol fuel 100cc four stroke or forced induction 100cc but its been a while.

[kel]

I guess a fuel spec sheet should have been included from the start.



And rule 10.17.1
10-17-1 The following classes shall be restricted to petrol having maximum characteristics not
exceeding “Avgas or Unleaded FIM” as defined in Appendix E. Motocross,
Stadium/Supercross, Miniature TT, Trials, Enduro, Cross Country, ATV, Stockbike,
Solo, All Road Race except those classes listed in 10-17-2 and 10-17-3. All Mini and
Junior classes.

And of course appendix E (which if I understand right is about to be updated to include E10)

[crazy man]

Well I have just dropped 3 kg with a stomach bug. If you hurry round for a little kiss I am sure you could 2.

its amazing with 666 devil2: on your post can make you say these things lol..looks like all are posts are stuck

[husaberg]

I guess a fuel spec sheet should have been included from the start.



And rule 10.17.1
10-17-1 The following classes shall be restricted to petrol having maximum characteristics not
exceeding “Avgas or Unleaded FIM” as defined in Appendix E. Motocross,
Stadium/Supercross, Miniature TT, Trials, Enduro, Cross Country, ATV, Stockbike,
Solo, All Road Race except those classes listed in 10-17-2 and 10-17-3. All Mini and
Junior classes.

And of course appendix E (which if I understand right is about to be updated to include E10)

This got a pretty good thrasing out on the ESE thread so I thought I'd start a poll to see what people think.

We have a fuel rule in 24.2.5 that could use updating

24-2-5 Fuel:
See 10-17-1
Alcohol based fuel or fuel additives are prohibited.

10-17-1 Allows for Avgas and FIM unleaded meaning super good but expensive Elf, VP etc are OK to use. Pump fuel E10 has also been added to 10-17-1 but our class supplementary “Alcohol based fuel or fuel additives are prohibited” means we can’t use it.
I would like to propose we allow all commercially available pump fuels to be used for bucket racing. - I tried to propose this rule change to MNZ through the Auckland club but it seems it never got to MNZ.
Why change you ask, well several reasons
A. Cost; pump fuels are cheap compared to Avgas and FIM unleaded
B. Availability; This stuff can be bought at most petrol stations - actually this one is incorrect and should read; This stuff can be bought at North Island petrol stations
C. Toxicity; unlike Avgas all other pump fuels are lead free
D. Quality; the biofuel blends are generally good quality
E. Power; while the pump biofuels wont match the super expensive FIM fuel, if used in a correctly set up motor they can produce good power even similar to Avgas (E85 rather than E10).

So vote - Agree or Disagree its your choice but tell us why.
Last edited by kel; Yesterday 24th May at 09:42. Reason: B. Availability, needed correcting

Kel that was not what you were proposing though was it.............
Why not start a pole that reflects that proposed change.
You are proposing a National rule Change yet it includes a fuel that benefits most a few Air cooled 2 stroke 125's and forced induction 100 four strokes)that are only in the North Island.

[Bert]

I Vote Yes.

I've done my dash with Avgas. After breathing in way too much exhaust fumes during dyno time plus with the amount I spill on myself, I think my lead levels are just about right. Plus Im tight. I want access to a cheaper, safer fuels that can still deliver reasonable power.

As far as safe goes avgas doesnt even rate a mention when you're talking bike racing as there's a lot more things likely to fuck you up, for the amount used it's not that expensive and is readily available (at least in the South)
By all means get E85 approved but dont give avgas the arse while you're doing it

Safety or not; it is good to have a choice at the top end on the RON rating.
Its a little bit of a surprise that they don't colour E85..

I think the fuel rule in 24.2.5 should be deleted so we have the same fuel choices.

That's the cleanest way of resolving this.

I guess a fuel spec sheet should have been included from the start.



And rule 10.17.1
10-17-1 The following classes shall be restricted to petrol having maximum characteristics not
exceeding “Avgas or Unleaded FIM” as defined in Appendix E. Motocross,
Stadium/Supercross, Miniature TT, Trials, Enduro, Cross Country, ATV, Stockbike,
Solo, All Road Race except those classes listed in 10-17-2 and 10-17-3. All Mini and
Junior classes.

Fuel spec sheet really does need cleaning up in MOMs. Te side by side is far better.