Customs, too stupid to be idiots

[nosebleed]

...A pic fwiw.

Meke. Would love to hear them.

[Robert Taylor]

BS is still BS, no matter how many times you say it and hope that it changes.

1) The gst free threshhold is the same for private and commercial importers.
2) Commercial importers have an advantage in that all expenses, eg brokerage fees, etc are tax deductible
3) gst paid to customs is refunded to commercial importers via the IRD
4) Clearance fees are the same for private and commercial importers.

I have sympathy for NZ manufacturers who are undercut by imports, both commercial and private, this actually costs kiwi jobs.
But commercial importers ? no sympathy at all.
Its actually commercial importers who have cost NZ manufacturing and kiwi jobs
Look around you, its commercial importers who have stuffed our clothing industry, shut car assy plants and associated industries, electronics manufacture and assy, we even used to make motorcycle helmets here, etc etc etc

So before slagging off private importers, look in the mirror.
All that money you send overseas supports Swedish, Japanese, Korean and Chinese workers not Kiwi workers
Dont throw stones if you are in a glass house, and get off your high horse before you fall off.

Here we go again, I have copies of invoices for ''private clearances'' and commercial clearances. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE IN BROKERAGE FEES, commercial operators pay more, full stop. What you also conveniently overlook is yes there is a gst money go round but the commercial operator has to have the funding in place to pay that gst in the first place, often by bank overdraft facilities and the fees paid for that ( not tiny ) There is also the substanial cost of managing that money go round via accountancy fees etc etc. And then we will get started on ACC levies and many other compounding business costs shall we??????

You also conveniently overlook that many purchasers are now escaping gst that they would otherwise pay if the goods were purchased locally ( and in fairness thats not always possible and I have stated many times that ( unlike you ) I can see all sides of the story ) So, this is one of my main salient points, the Government is losing out on a lot of tax revenue and the insidious thing is that because it seems to be in ''the hard basket'' to not collect fully from existing taxation streams they will inevitably look at creating new taxes or raising in other areas, such as the proposed and forthcoming hikes in petrol tax.

Its all about balance and a sense of fairplay. Although I am an importer employing locals ( and subcontracting to locals ) and providing a service to locals I would much prefer to see a much weaker $NZ. The bigger picture of whats good for the country at large should always come before self interest.

BTW, in deference to your emotional outburst I am not slagging off private importers, Im highlighting defects in the way NZ customs operate, as have others in this thread. Ive also provided some not irrelevant insight into timelines for manufacturing that a number of readers may have been unaware of. And As I also have stated I occassionally purchase some items offshore myself and would not consider it an affront to pay clearance and gst on such purchases, no matter how small the TRUE value of the goods purchased. 98TLS has admirably made light of that.

[Robert Taylor]

I buy from the USA ... generally that parts are 50% cheaper.
I also tell the bike shop what I can get the bits for and they have the opportunity to match the price.

Most of the time they don't, yea yea yea tell me all the shit about trying to run a business etc, don't wash with me.

Don't get me wrong I will support the local shop but if they are ripping me blind then no thanks.

example.. Kick stand for a dirt bike.. in NZ $94, landed from USA $48.. don't know about you but when I look in the shitter there is not heaps of used $100 notes
Sorry but that's the way life is now.

How many of you buy NZ made tee shirts?

Best you start your own motorcycle shop then and recieve a rude awakening.

[Erelyes]

What you also conveniently overlook is yes there is a gst money go round but the commercial operator has to have the funding in place to pay that gst in the first place, often by bank overdraft facilities and the fees paid for that ( not tiny )

What? A business has to go into overdraft to pay GST on customs? You overlook that the GST a business collects in its sales (on behalf of the government, so not even their money), they get to keep hold of until 20 days after the end of the taxable period. Offsetting this GST paid to customs.

GST is pretty simple: you have a net profit, you pay the GST you collect; if you have a loss, you claim.

Any business turning a profit has the fabulous advantage of free money (not theirs) which they can do whatever the fuck they want with (i.e. deposit to earn interest) as long as they pay it back by X date.

The only way you would go into overdraft to pay customs GST is if A) your expenses are higher than sales, AND, B) you don't have a sufficient cash balance in the business to absorb that until the end of the taxable period, or C) you use the hybrid accounting basis.

A) is simply a demonstration of the fact that business is a risk, some win some lose. B) is a lapse of common sense. C) is a dangerous lack of common sense.

There is also the substantial cost of managing that money go round via accountancy fees etc etc. And then we will get started on ACC levies and many other compounding business costs shall we??????

What do you propose - that accountants work for free? That the govt pays for the overheads because some random decides to get into business? As a taxpayer I prefer supporting the businesses I like voluntarily (i.e. buying their stuff) rather than involuntarily funding every Joe Blow that thinks he can cut it. We do that already (free advice various Govt Departments give, start up grants, etc etc).

Sorry but business costs simply aren't that big a deal for those who understand they game they're playing. I'm not criticizing your personal business as I have no idea what you do, but I am criticizing your argument. If someone doesn't know what they're getting themselves in for, it's their own fucking fault. Caveat venditor (sort of). There are plenty of bankrupts that look back and say 'What the fuck happened', which demonstrates exactly why they bankrupted in the first place. I used to talk to people on a daily basis whose businesses were in danger, or in the process of being flushed down the shitter.

So, this is one of my main salient points, the Government is losing out on a lot of tax revenue and the insidious thing is that because it seems to be in ''the hard basket'' to not collect fully from existing taxation streams they will inevitably look at creating new taxes or raising in other areas, such as the proposed and forthcoming hikes in petrol tax.

Yes they're losing revenue and of course it's in the too hard basket. To be honest, since you have to deal with each individual case (contacting that any importing member of the public trying to defraud, is going to fight you over it for hours etc), the $$$ investment in each case to collect a hundred bucks of GST would probably mean a net loss. Sad state of affairs yes, can it be fixed, probably not without breaking several other things.

Back to the OP...

few days later the blokes bits turn up in a courier van,no hold up and no duty payable

I feel like the guy hung up the phone, thought 'this guy has the right attitude, is doing the right thing, and I'm gonna see to it that we don't fuck him around by way of thanks' and just fast-tracked ya. Probably false but that's what I hope happened.

[Katman]

Most of the time they don't, yea yea yea tell me all the shit about trying to run a business etc, don't wash with me.

Don't get me wrong I will support the local shop but if they are ripping me blind then no thanks.

Let me guess - you don't have your own business, right?

[pete-blen]

How many of you buy NZ made tee shirts?

think you miss the point...
Not where they are made..but where you bought it..
If it's bought in NZ then duty / GST was payed on them...
but NZ made is even better...

Robert is correct....
But most people look for the best bang for there $.... thats the prob...
I just imported a bike part from Germany..should have been charged near $200 GST.. but
it ended up on my door step with no contact from customs....
They detracted 19% VAT/GST off it at there end because it went outside europe..
talk about win win...
But I don't see why NZ customs didn't put GST on it as it came though..

[Hacking]

Not looking forward coming home next week, im use to prices in california .
Things are cheaper here in most cases but there is 20million in los Angeles. I do feel for bike shops that need to buy through a distributor in N.Z to do business than bringing in there own imports but that is like with all business's in a small country it is a struggle but top it off motorcycles are a hobbie now days not a form off transport for the masses so everyone wants a deal or free advice from qualified people.
Now days anyone can search for problems retaining to there motorcyle , motorcycle shops are coming obsolete.
Robert taylor is not part for this trend as he specialized in suspension or ray clee, dave cole.these guys provide a service/ experience that your P.C won't .
I've looked at new bike prices in N.Z before shipping my bikes back,There is no need to even buy a new bike from a dealer as dealerships in the U.S will sell you a model for ex: zx10r 12-13k us and 800 for shipping, by law it has to be covered by the local dist if you push hard within the manufacturers time limts.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I've looked at new bike prices in N.Z before shipping my bikes back,There is no need to even buy a new bike from a dealer as dealerships in the U.S will sell you a model for ex: zx10r 12-13k us and 800 for shipping, by law it has to be covered by the local dist if you push hard within the manufacturers time limts.

Yeah but to try and buy one from NZ and import it...that turns into $19800 landed. Thenyou have to pay $$$$$ to swap the headlight etc etc...then get it vinned etc etc...so is it cheaper? Nope.

[Crasherfromwayback]

I once paid duty to customs for a Belly Pan and Hugger that came from the U.K.

Later realised they'd thought the stuff was clothing - and I shouldn't actually have been charged. (Confirmed with phone call to customs).

The run-around to get a refund made me just leave it in their coffers.

I bought an exhaust, for my bike, out of the USA. (No NZ dealers, before you slate me for doing so.)

It was labelled correctly, it was priced as I paid for it.

And it took a week to get here. NO extra Customs duty. I assumed it was because it was Motorcycle parts, and therefor exempt from Customs duty.

Matters not if they're motorcycle parts or sex toys. Still have to pay if the value of 'em is over $400.00.

[Robert Taylor]

What? A business has to go into overdraft to pay GST on customs? You overlook that the GST a business collects in its sales (on behalf of the government, so not even their money), they get to keep hold of until 20 days after the end of the taxable period. Offsetting this GST paid to customs.

GST is pretty simple: you have a net profit, you pay the GST you collect; if you have a loss, you claim.

Any business turning a profit has the fabulous advantage of free money (not theirs) which they can do whatever the fuck they want with (i.e. deposit to earn interest) as long as they pay it back by X date.

The only way you would go into overdraft to pay customs GST is if A) your expenses are higher than sales, AND, B) you don't have a sufficient cash balance in the business to absorb that until the end of the taxable period, or C) you use the hybrid accounting basis.

A) is simply a demonstration of the fact that business is a risk, some win some lose. B) is a lapse of common sense. C) is a dangerous lack of common sense.



What do you propose - that accountants work for free? That the govt pays for the overheads because some random decides to get into business? As a taxpayer I prefer supporting the businesses I like voluntarily (i.e. buying their stuff) rather than involuntarily funding every Joe Blow that thinks he can cut it. We do that already (free advice various Govt Departments give, start up grants, etc etc).

Sorry but business costs simply aren't that big a deal for those who understand they game they're playing. I'm not criticizing your personal business as I have no idea what you do, but I am criticizing your argument. If someone doesn't know what they're getting themselves in for, it's their own fucking fault. Caveat venditor (sort of). There are plenty of bankrupts that look back and say 'What the fuck happened', which demonstrates exactly why they bankrupted in the first place. I used to talk to people on a daily basis whose businesses were in danger, or in the process of being flushed down the shitter.



Yes they're losing revenue and of course it's in the too hard basket. To be honest, since you have to deal with each individual case (contacting that any importing member of the public trying to defraud, is going to fight you over it for hours etc), the $$$ investment in each case to collect a hundred bucks of GST would probably mean a net loss. Sad state of affairs yes, can it be fixed, probably not without breaking several other things.

Back to the OP...


I feel like the guy hung up the phone, thought 'this guy has the right attitude, is doing the right thing, and I'm gonna see to it that we don't fuck him around by way of thanks' and just fast-tracked ya. Probably false but that's what I hope happened.

I did not say that business has to go into overdraft just to pay customs gst. Its clear that so many that frequent this forum just have no idea whatsoever how the cards are increasingly stacked against small NZ businesses. Care to deny that?

How do we put up the minimum wage when business profits are getting increasingly squeezed? ( and Im not meaning BIG businesses )

[Erelyes]

What you also conveniently overlook is yes there is a gst money go round but the commercial operator has to have the funding in place to pay that gst in the first place, often by bank overdraft facilities

I did not say that business has to go into overdraft just to pay customs gst.

If that's not what you're saying, then I have no idea what you are saying, and will leave it there.

Edit: although on further consideration if you're saying that some businesses do have to go into overdraft to pay GST and others don't - then I argue that 'those that do' DON'T have to, because they can use common sense instead and avoid getting themselves in that situation.

[Robert Taylor]

If that's not what you're saying, then I have no idea what you are saying, and will leave it there.

Edit: although on further consideration if you're saying that some businesses do have to go into overdraft to pay GST and others don't - then I argue that 'those that do' DON'T have to, because they can use common sense instead and avoid getting themselves in that situation.

Suffice to say many will understand the core issue of what I am driving at, i.e there is not a level playing field and the Government is failing to collect a lot of gst. We all want services, somehow that has to be paid for.

[Madness]

Edit: although on further consideration if you're saying that some businesses do have to go into overdraft to pay GST and others don't - then I argue that 'those that do' DON'T have to, because they can use common sense instead and avoid getting themselves in that situation.

It's a pity all those unpaid Mainzeal subbies didn't know about this eh? That's an extreme example, of course, but a common reality of business in New Zealand. You'd know this already though, eh?

[jasonu]

Having a laugh at the "didnt have a clue what things are worth" comments by some,if they dont then what the fuck are they doing working there?.

I am pretty sure I could send a box of Titanium nuts and bolts worth $2000 to NZ, call it zinc plated nuts and bolts worth $50 and customs would be non the wiser to its actual value.

[Motig]

If you think that customs has the time to research the price of every item that is imported your dreaming and remember their not sitting at home waiting for that one package that was ordered last week theres 1000's every day.
I actually question the sanity of the thread starter- why, if you obviously import lots of bling for your bike would you start a thread complaining about customs not charging? Be careful what you wish for.