The role of parents in financial education

[Tarded]

Im sorry mon I deal with what I am saying every day of the week.I have a pile of files sitting right next to me. People wanting finance.
For Me and You what you posted is just common sense Im not argueing with you there.
But the evidence I have reinforces what Im saying .People across the board lack the ability to plan financially.
To say "ohh its the dumb blacks" or "pakeha ripping us off" is stupid because its right across New Zealand society. Black ,white,brown or yellow.People are not living within their means when things are good.
Actually I'd also add we have a generation with expectations of being bailed out when they get too deep in debt so they generally don't want to plan.

Dont let the lefties hear you mention personal responsibility! Esp the mentally ill ones - mashman.

The main problem with leftie economics is they dont have a plan for what to do when they have run out of other peoples money to give away.

Lazy stupid people are lazy stupid people. And not all those on the bene fit this criteria obviously.
But it supports many who do.

No point teaching a man to fish if he is too bone idle to bother when he can get a free fish every day.

And you cant change the human psyche. Read some Orwell.

[mashman]

Im sorry mon I deal with what I am saying every day of the week.I have a pile of files sitting right next to me. People wanting finance.
For Me and You what you posted is just common sense Im not argueing with you there.
But the evidence I have reinforces what Im saying .People across the board lack the ability to plan financially.
To say "ohh its the dumb blacks" or "pakeha ripping us off" is stupid because its right across New Zealand society. Black ,white,brown or yellow.People are not living within their means when things are good.
Actually I'd also add we have a generation with expectations of being bailed out when they get too deep in debt so they generally don't want to plan.

There's nothing wrong with people wanting finance though, is there. They may even be able to aford the repayments
Things turn to custard sometimes. If people can't afford what they have, then it'll be a very short lived ownership as they won't be able to pay for it, but given that they can, then I'm guessing that they're financially aware albeit they may be overstretched with contingency. If they are going to start catering for contingency, then I think we'll start seeing less people buying stuff. Even though I get Genestho's "lag" argument, it's not just the item being bought that will be saved for. It's everything that they don't buy during that save time that feels the affect. On the face of it it looks like a great policy, in reality it's overkill to teach it at school. It's basic Maths. Some people may not grasp Maths. How do you teach them?
heh, you can't beat a good stereotype though, it's a great thing to use when yer fresh out of ideas in regards to what the problem is. Tis one of the reasons that I love KB so . They are living within their means, they're just not ready for the fuckup of the exceptionally financially literate brigade, even the financially literate take a hammering and when they get hammered, jobs are lost and people get exposed to a situation no one (very few) could have predicted. Saying that they're living beyond their means in many cases is not the term I'd use.
That's what insurance is for innit as it absolves one of personal responsibility

[mashman]

Dont let the lefties hear you mention personal responsibility! Esp the mentally ill ones - mashman.

The main problem with leftie economics is they dont have a plan for what to do when they have run out of other peoples money to give away.

Lazy stupid people are lazy stupid people. And not all those on the bene fit this criteria obviously.
But it supports many who do.

No point teaching a man to fish if he is too bone idle to bother when he can get a free fish every day.

And you cant change the human psyche. Read some Orwell.

From Page 9

People will have the opportunity to exercise personal responsibility with just about zero excuses for doing something bad.

bzzzzz, try again

@other people's money. Left, right, still in the middle with you, they all use the same money for the same things.

As for the rest, I hear whambulance.

As I said, I have changed my mind. Orwell was wrong. Weak willed people can't change their minds because they don't have one to change, they need to be told what to think and feel by the media so that they can feel safe that their choice was the majority one. Fuckin hilarious watching that unfold on a forum.

[Banditbandit]

Dont let the lefties hear you mention personal responsibility! Esp the mentally ill ones - mashman.

Huh ?? What ??? Where did that come from ?? What do you know about anarchy - where personal freedom is only gained in balance and alongside personal repsonsibilty - complete and total personal responsibility ...

And where do we see the rightwing exhibit personal responsibility when Govements bail out big business with billions of dollars - How does that hold exectives personally responsible for the fiscal mess they create ??

The main problem with leftie economics is they dont have a plan for what to do when they have run out of other peoples money to give away.

Bwhahaha .. so ... I consider myself to be leftwing .. but I also consider that the Rightwing giving $1.6billion of our money (mine and your taxes) to South Canterbury Finance (and other similar actions) to be completely wrong ...

It's not just the left that give away other people's money ...

And the fact that you posted this inane comment shows just how much of the right wing propoganda you have carelesly swallowed.

Lazy stupid people are lazy stupid people. And not all those on the bene fit this criteria obviously.
But it supports many who do.

Yes true .. how to you propose to deal with the issues created by cutting the benefit to those people at a time when even a Govermment minister has admitted there are not enough jobs to go around? And how do you identify those people ?

No point teaching a man to fish if he is too bone idle to bother when he can get a free fish every day.

This is true .. but give a man a fish you feed him for a day .. teach him to use the internet and he won't bother you for weeks ...

Equally - It is said that an infinite number of monkeys with a keyboard each will eventually write the script to Hamlet ... The internet proves this is false ..

Who gave you a keyboard and taught you to use the interdweb? ??

[avgas]

Is that because they weren't being paid at the end of the training?

Nah - because we were helping people who didn't want help. They wanted a perpetual handout, not a solution.
They were smart enough to know that if they learned to fish, they would be expected to catch fish. If they absolved themselves of that then society would provide for them.
I'd rather let the fuckers starve.

Well you'll get your wish given the current way we live. Quite possibly in our lifetime.
Very true in regards to the respect. Perhaps we can teach a generation to have some? As I said earlier, I'm willing to give it a bash to see if it can work. Better trying that never knowing?
And if the people pulling the carriage are happy to pull the carriage? They're fools? or are they just hard workers who have that respect thing you're talking about?
There is already an easy way out. It's called the dole. Why don't more people take that option?

Sadomasochism. But sometimes there are other reasons.
My wife is easier to live with when she works. Therefore I must also work as I couldn't get the dole and have her income also.
I used to go to school because I was told education was king. Now the more I know the less I want to - the more you know about the complexions of life, the more complicated the life.

I used to smoke dope and think listen to music all day.
Was I more productive to society then? Or when I started to get paid to do stuff?

[avgas]

So everyone on a benefit is a Lazy Arsed Leech...?
Some people don,t have a choice...
But hey its what I would expect from you..
Its like saying all cops are cunts..

There is always a choice.
Are you doing volunteer work?
Benefit = money
Lazy = Ability to do something

The ability to do something is independant of being paid. Lots of people are lazy. Lots of people are on benefits.
You could argue that if being on a benefit is a negative, and being lazy is also negative.
Being a Lazy Arsed Leech (as you called it) or as I would say - a person on a benefit doing nothing........................I can't really see a positive side to that.

Just because gangs ride motorbikes should we assume all motorcyclist are arseholes, or out of interest its how the person acts that changes that perception?
So are you lazy? I sometimes am........it's not something I am proud of.

[mashman]

Nah - because we were helping people who didn't want help. They wanted a perpetual handout, not a solution.
They were smart enough to know that if they learned to fish, they would be expected to catch fish. If they absolved themselves of that then society would provide for them.
I'd rather let the fuckers starve.

Ah. Now here's where we agree believe it or not. I'm happy to let the fuckers starve... however we both know that that won't happen as they will merely take someone else's and that's the whole point of giving them money in the first place. Caveat: I won't accept that under the circumstances where a few are benefitting via some form of value system, coz that shit just doesn't work. So whilst my system CAN provide for the "lazy" (it has to coz the same needs to be available for the "infirm"), there's nothing to say that society, or indeed the community in which the lazy individual(s) live, has to supply anything to those people should it wish not to. It reasonable to expect some effort, so I understand that point of view. It could be as simple as cleaning the sewers for 2 hours a day. Then perhaps the community will be happy? If not, then I question the society/community as it is valuing a mandatory contribution based on some arbritrary measurement. To that end I'd support the death penalty for rapists etc... As I said to the tarded one, "People will have the opportunity to exercise personal responsibility with just about zero excuses for doing something bad.". We get to set new rules based on entirely different standards and not for the few, but for everyone.

Sadomasochism. But sometimes there are other reasons.
My wife is easier to live with when she works. Therefore I must also work as I couldn't get the dole and have her income also.
I used to go to school because I was told education was king. Now the more I know the less I want to - the more you know about the complexions of life, the more complicated the life.

I used to smoke dope and think listen to music all day.
Was I more productive to society then? Or when I started to get paid to do stuff?

... You want to become them ? I have discussed with Mrs M about hitting the dole. She's not keen, so I have to work... although I've recently cut my hours to get home early to deal with the kids coz she's working ridiculous hours for half of my salary. Go figure. There's a fuckload of jobs that don't serve people and those jobs, in a money free society, will simply vanish. This will leave people free to re-train in a job that is actually useful and one that they might enjoy, hell we could have 20 different jobs over our lifetime. You could get stoned and listen to music iffen you were cleaning the swere .
I hear ya. And I've found the answer to be neither.

[avgas]

Great. Perhaps I could contribute. I would get my PHD, and then take more drugs.
I think this guy should be my idol

[mashman]

Great. Perhaps I could contribute. I would get my PHD, and then take more drugs.
I think this guy should be my idol

LSD then... I'm in.

[FROSTY:Me]

Mashman I just don't know what world you live in.
In my world As I said I have piles of applications for finance from people who are living beyond their means.
Not just the simple fact they need to borrow money to buy a $2000-15000 item but beyond their ability to repaythe loan itself.
Heres a couple of examples pulled at random from the stack
Earning $500 a week and current committments of $450 a week. Loan repayments of $40 a week. No allowance for car running costs/insurance etc.
Earning Decent money but 3 finance defaults in the past 2 years. No attempt to repay the debts despite being aware of them and having the money to repay them.
This is not as you seem to be saying about change of circumstances for the worse. This is just plain and simple bad money management.
I see 100 people with bad money management for every 1 I see due to change in circumstances.

people are "trapped" in a cycle of borrowing. At the bottom end you have those getting their pay or dole payments and ripping down to repay the loan at the shark at 28% interest.
At the other end you have people who "need" to top up their morgage to go on holiday or get the new car etc.

[Banditbandit]

Great. Perhaps I could contribute. I would get my PHD, and then take more drugs.
I think this guy should be my idol

"This guy" is so clearly on the autistic spectrum it is not funny - an excellent portrayal of such a person ...

And I'll bet he earns way way more money than you or I ..

[mashman]

Mashman I just don't know what world you live in.
In my world As I said I have piles of applications for finance from people who are living beyond their means.
Not just the simple fact they need to borrow money to buy a $2000-15000 item but beyond their ability to repaythe loan itself.
Heres a couple of examples pulled at random from the stack
Earning $500 a week and current committments of $450 a week. Loan repayments of $40 a week. No allowance for car running costs/insurance etc.
Earning Decent money but 3 finance defaults in the past 2 years. No attempt to repay the debts despite being aware of them and having the money to repay them.
This is not as you seem to be saying about change of circumstances for the worse. This is just plain and simple bad money management.
I see 100 people with bad money management for every 1 I see due to change in circumstances.

people are "trapped" in a cycle of borrowing. At the bottom end you have those getting their pay or dole payments and ripping down to repay the loan at the shark at 28% interest.
At the other end you have people who "need" to top up their morgage to go on holiday or get the new car etc.

I wasn't saying that these people don't exist. The thing is they have the money to make the payments in your example. As for running etc... you assume that they don't earn money in another way. Fair enough in regards to those who continually default, but how do they continually get finance when they are known risks?
Do you really think that financial literacy lessons are going to change their spending behaviour? Like you say, they can't get credit from the cheaper interest channels, so they head of to the shark. They know how much cash they have.

There is a cycle of borrowing and as your probably know, it only takes a person to go overdrawn once and it could quite easily continue like that for the rest of their lives. I honestly don't see financial literacy classes making a hoot of difference.

As I said, I get the idea behind financial literacy classes, but I don't see how it's going to make a blind bit of difference to the decision making process of those who are willing to get themselves into that position.

[mashman]

Mashie - I know you enjoy these arguments but doesn't it worry you that on a site with 4000 members, you have almost no support? Could it be that you are mistaken? Or are you convinced that everyone else is wrong and you are a lone messiah?

Perhaps we, that's those who have voted yes in the pole of the other thread, know something about NZers that you don't? Could you be mistaken about our agenda? Could you wrong about the support that may be in the wider community? I am but 1 of many... and we are you in every single way.

[scumdog]

Earning $500 a week and current committments of $450 a week. Loan repayments of $40 a week. No allowance for car running costs/insurance etc.
.

So $10 'spare' huh?

And that $450 is for the 'regular' committments...so one visit to the dentist or one punctured tyre or one burnt-out electric jug and that's that weeks 'spare' (+ some) gone.

[scumdog]

As for running etc... you assume that they don't earn money in another way. .

Well they said an income of $500 - why fudge the amount they earn - especially when trying to get a loan??