A new brand of chinese "sports bikes"?

[MarkH]

why not? They make more of those silly little bikes tha any Jappa you'll buy. And their markets are absolutely massive, NZ market means nothing on a global scale.

That's because currently the Chinese bikes sold here are the cheaper ones, and small bikes, most smaller bikes don't do anywhere near 100,000km anyway.
How many 250cc singles are there in the last 5 years from Japan that have travelled that far yet? None that I've known.

I'm not saying they're good bikes, just saying you should compare apples to apples, I worked on a Hudson with 600,000 miles once and it was a 1934, that means anything not from America is shit and cannot be trusted?

I love KB, the epitome of wild speculation.

Did I say that they weren't good bikes or that the parts would not be available?
The answer is no, I never said that.

What I suggested was that the established brands have built up a level of trust that these newcomers have not.
I don't believe that your wild speculation about parts availability has any basis - especially when you haven't even provided any evidence of the large numbers you claim they are making. The big Japanese four motorcycle companies have a well established parts supply, just because a person finds a Chinese brand to import it doesn't mean that he will be around in ten years to provide replacement parts.
How much do we know about this Chinese brand?
To suggest that we can have faith that they are a good company and their bikes are good and the parts will be available for decades - that would be wild speculation.

Even if that brand makes millions of motorcycles per year - do we know how long they expect them to last? Do they view their product as disposable to be replaced rather than repaired once over 5 years old? Do they intend them to be used for 20-30 years with parts available for that long? If you have access to answers then please share that information with us.

I'd rather go with a known brand with a good reputation than this unknown quantity from China.

[ducatilover]

Established? Well, give 'em a chance...
And as for parts, I have a hell of a lot of grief dealing with all the local chaps to get parts for my bikes, so I just buy from overseas. None of the locals could find fork seals for the ZXR400H1 forks one of my bikes runs even with a list of other bikes that run the same seal (ZR750 etc) and it doesn't stop there. ZZR4/600 parts seem to elude most of them, even though they sold well new here.
And Kawasaki is an established brand isn't it? Same goes for my Hondas and my DR600/SP600 motor.

I think give the Chinese a chance, early Japanese products were absolute shit and China will improve their quality more in the future, which is nice. Market/Manufacturer loyalists will be in for an unfortunate shock if you ask me.
I'm not saying these bikes are good, I haven't worked on one or ridden one myself. But, ya never know.

[jolly_26]

When I get back up to Christchurch I'll have to go and have a look and a test ride on one and report back. If anyone else feels like doing so then please do as well.

[MarkH]

I think give the Chinese a chance

No thanks.
I'll let others be the early adopters and take the risks.
As I said - I'd rather buy a 2nd hand well established brand rather than take a gamble on a new brand that I know nothing about.
If I want to gamble I'll do it in poker, that way I make money instead of losing it.

[The Reibz]

Atleast the Japs put a good amount of R&D into there products.
Most chinese products seem to be stolen or badly copied, then rebranded countless times from different factories. Yep I"m more than aware that most of our shit is made in china these days but you do get what you pay for.

[BigAl]

Plus the Japs use decent alloys, look at chinese trailers with subaxles that bend, weilds breaking etc.

Quality control appears to be non existant.

[F5 Dave]

. . .
. . . early Japanese products were absolute shit and China will improve their quality more in the future, which is nice. . . .

. . .ahh, no they weren't. very quickly they worked out the mistakes the Brits etc had made (rather than slavishly replicating them year on year) and strived to improve metallurgy so that they had more reliable products than the competition.

[unstuck]

. . .ahh, no they weren't. very quickly they worked out the mistakes the Brits etc had made (rather than slavishly replicating them year on year) and strived to improve metallurgy so that they had more reliable products than the competition.

Yeah, the steel in these 62 Glorias was pretty tough.

[Drew]

I know a girl who is a shearer, she knocked her now Ex partner out Top girl that one.

Might be the one I thought was gona rape me, at the Ekky pub one night.

[unstuck]

Might be the one I thought was gona rape me, at the Ekky pub one night.

You might of liked it. I doubt it, but you never know.

[Drew]

You might of liked it. I doubt it, but you never know.

She was possibly quite attractive in her twenties. When she took a shine to me though, those years looked that far behind her too.

She had muscle definition like you wouldn't believe in her arms and legs, and that was more than I wanted to see!

[kinger]

. . .ahh, no they weren't. very quickly they worked out the mistakes the Brits etc had made (rather than slavishly replicating them year on year) and strived to improve metallurgy so that they had more reliable products than the competition.

It was more than just metallurgy.
They also aimed to blueprint components rather than working within tolerance like the UK manufacturers.
This leads to increased production time, rejection of unsatisfactory products, and a resulting increase in costs.
Can't see these bikes having such stringent controls being placed upon them.

There were a spate of cheap Chinese scooters in Blighty that had failures in the welds holding the bar risers on. They shortly after were banned from sale.

[AllanB]

I know a girl who is a shearer, she knocked her now Ex partner out Top girl that one.

I once knew a girl who had been sheared somewhere ......... she was not Chinese though. If she had been it would have been sideways .....

[speights_bud]

From Me

I personally question the safety and build quality of the motorcycles that www.two-wheels.co.nz are providing for sale. After looking at the close up photo's on your website I, amongst many other motorcycle enthusiasts have serious concerns about the safety of riders who purchase the machines.

It is my opinion that it is only a matter of time before the failure of something in one of these bikes ...causes serious injury or death.

As an example, have a look at the quality of the gear shift mechanism below.

http://www.two-wheels.co.nz/Images/B...ge.930x500.jpg

While I do understand the strengths of welds etc, should that weld connecting the push rod to the spline coupling fail then the rod will drop downward with the gear shifter and potentially dig into the road surface causing an accident which may result in Injury or even Death for the rider.

I cannot believe that the bikes are passing compliance testing and getting vinned. And No I do not own a motorcycle shop or work for one. This has nothing to do with competitive marketing/business. I have no agenda to push. I am an engineer and keen motorcycle racer.

Buyers beware. Don't risk your life or the life of others on poor workmanship.

Two Wheels Limited

Dear Patrick,

Thank you very much for your concerns and sharing them. We appreciate that you raise awareness for motorcycle safety.

As for the gear shift mechanism: please come and visit our showroom. We have a Honda CBR 250R here to allow for direct comparison with a more well-known brand in New Zealand: the gear shift mechanism is of the similar build quality; Honda also welds the push rod to the spline coupling which you refer to be less safe.

The motorcycles don't only pass compliance and VIN because for the sake, but also because of their overall quality. On top of that, all motorcycles come with EEC certificate confirming to comply with the strict European quality, safety, and emission standards.

You are very welcome to test our motorcycles yourself and comment again about their quality.

Thank you and kind regards,
Sven from the Two Wheels team

[speights_bud]

From Me

Two Wheels Limited:
"...We have a Honda CBR 250R here to allow for direct comparison with a more well-known brand in New Zealand: the gear shift mechanism is of the similar build quality; Honda also welds the push rod to the spline couplin...g which you refer to be less safe."

Thank you again for the offer to come look in your showroom, unfortunately again the distance makes it impractical for me to do so. I am making the comments below based on the photograph shown in your website. Which as a consumer i expect to be a 'fair representation' of the product being advertised.

I do not have any issue with the parts being welded together. Again i will say it is the QUALITY of the manufacturing that is the problem.

Below is an image of both a CBR250R and the Quantum 250R.

As you will see the weld on the CBR is good, it has sufficient penetration, it is smooth and runs fully along the bottom of the spline attachment. There are no sharp corners or weak spots created by undercutting. This is probably welded on both sides. It also pays to note that the split is located on the top of the spline. This allows a full weld to be made where the parts join across the maximum surface area.

On the Quantum 250R. You will see firstly that the split on the spline is at the bottom of the female part. This has two flaws.

Firstly when pressure is applied on the spline in a direction toward the front of the bike (up-shift). The spline will be naturally pressured open. This may encourage the bolt to work loose and if left may damage the spline as it rotates on itself. Dangerous if a rider looses the ability to select gears when riding. The location of the split also halves the amount of material available to weld.

Secondly as can be seen, the weld quality itself is poor. While one end appears to have good penetration, the cold slug on the outside indicates that the weld has not been formed correctly and a weak joint is most likely present. From what i can see the material appears to be a mild steel of sorts and as a result of such a join i would expect corrosion to occur from this point.

These are just observations and my opinion of the product being advertised. And personally i do not feel it is a risk worth taking for the sake of saving a few $$. I feel that new riders are most likely to be unaware of such issues or potential issues and that they will be influenced on the first impression of good looks to make their decision. Then again at the end of the day it is up to the buyer to decide if the product is suitable for their needs or not.

Regards

Patrick Doohan