Motorbike shop punished for sluggish repair

[HenryDorsetCase]

They didnt have the parts because the distributor didnt have the parts and so on. That the dealer got busted for it is WRONG. If I was the customer Id have that on my conscience. But I have seen this before, the customer feels aggrieved ( and often very justifiably ) but doesnt care exactly where the ''compensation'' comes from, as long as it comes. Thats immoral

Robert that is flat wrong, sorry to say. the customer has no other avenue of recourse morally OR legally except against the only other party in their relationship, that is, the dealer. They cannot (except in limited circumstances as mandated in the CGA, and Fair Trading Act, and remember that this decision was under the MVDT) approach a third party for recompense. And the distributor is a third party. The dealer is in business to make a profit*, and in this instance they decided to maximise their profit by minimising the time and cost spent on one of their legally imposed obligations. And that, completely correctly in my view, has earned them a sanction. Not to mention bad publicity which I would suggest is actually worse than the (say) $2000 this cockup has cost them.

As a theoretical example, say I bought a brand new Honda CBR1000RR from Casbolts that, it turns out is plagued with faulty reg/rec which is endemic to the model. I just can't go back to Blue Wing and say "fix it": I have to take it back to Casbolts. You can tell thats a theoretical example because I would never ever buy a new Honda from Casbolts. Last time I bought a new Honda I travelled 50 miles out of my way to buy it from another dealer.

Another example, this time of very good warranty service: I own a 2009 Triumph Street Triple R. I am a second owner of it and the warranty has well run out. I got a letter from Triumph NZ last year saying "O Hai, there is apossibility your bike has a dodgy reg/rec: take it to your local dealer and they will replace it free of charge". Cant ask for better than that. I got them to do it next time it was in for a service so they'd make some coin on the job, but like I say, I thought that was excellent service both from the dealer and from Triumph NZ.


*notionally

[Robert Taylor]

Robert that is flat wrong, sorry to say. the customer has no other avenue of recourse morally OR legally except against the only other party in their relationship, that is, the dealer. They cannot (except in limited circumstances as mandated in the CGA, and Fair Trading Act, and remember that this decision was under the MVDT) approach a third party for recompense. And the distributor is a third party. The dealer is in business to make a profit*, and in this instance they decided to maximise their profit by minimising the time and cost spent on one of their legally imposed obligations. And that, completely correctly in my view, has earned them a sanction. Not to mention bad publicity which I would suggest is actually worse than the (say) $2000 this cockup has cost them.

As a theoretical example, say I bought a brand new Honda CBR1000RR from Casbolts that, it turns out is plagued with faulty reg/rec which is endemic to the model. I just can't go back to Blue Wing and say "fix it": I have to take it back to Casbolts. You can tell thats a theoretical example because I would never ever buy a new Honda from Casbolts. Last time I bought a new Honda I travelled 50 miles out of my way to buy it from another dealer.

Another example, this time of very good warranty service: I own a 2009 Triumph Street Triple R. I am a second owner of it and the warranty has well run out. I got a letter from Triumph NZ last year saying "O Hai, there is apossibility your bike has a dodgy reg/rec: take it to your local dealer and they will replace it free of charge". Cant ask for better than that. I got them to do it next time it was in for a service so they'd make some coin on the job, but like I say, I thought that was excellent service both from the dealer and from Triumph NZ.


*notionally

Yes I hear what you are saying. But go back to my YZ250F example. Who is at fault there? Go back to my tyre example, who is at fault there?

No one denies that the repair on the Aprilia DID take far too long but a dangerous precedent has been set and all consumers pay for this in the end

Id stress that in my own business we act on warranty VERY quickly and even if the claim is a little ''grey'' we act on the positive side

[breakaway]

The incidents you've brought up are pretty endemic of just about any industry. Which industry out there doesn't have dickhead customers? Which industry is there where all the work you do is billable? None.

You win some, you lose some.

But if you are blind to the ways of the world, you will lose everything sooner or later.

Nothing even worth mentioning, really.

[Katman]

The only mistake I can see is that the shop chose to wait for the gudgeon pin. If the pin hadn't turn up in time for the bike to be ready when promised to the customer I'd have been reusing the old gudgeon pin.

[HenryDorsetCase]

The only mistake I can see is that the shop chose to wait for the gudgeon pin. If the pin hadn't turn up in time for the bike to be ready when promised to the customer I'd have been reusing the old gudgeon pin.

And you would probably have been OK doing that. Except if it failed again and the punter realised thats what had happened in which case you have given them a pair of shoes to kick you in the arse with. "That is not the Aprilia way, its not how they mandated the job was done, its failed, its your fault": and Aprilia go "Mate, thats not how we say the job is done, you have to use all new parts, you're on your own". So you would end up paying again into infinity.

What it comes down to is that people are bastards. They'll fuck you over if they can and be all self-righteous about it while doing so and saying as they kick you in the teeth "Well, you do realise this is your fault".

[Katman]

And you would probably have been OK doing that. Except if it failed again and the punter realised thats what had happened in which case you have given them a pair of shoes to kick you in the arse with. "That is not the Aprilia way, its not how they mandated the job was done, its failed, its your fault": and Aprilia go "Mate, thats not how we say the job is done, you have to use all new parts, you're on your own". So you would end up paying again into infinity.

What it comes down to is that people are bastards. They'll fuck you over if they can and be all self-righteous about it while doing so and saying as they kick you in the teeth "Well, you do realise this is your fault".

Exactly, it's the old 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' story.

(And I've thought it over very carefully and I really can't imagine how a cold seizure could have damaged the gudgeon pin).

[Robert Taylor]

The incidents you've brought up are pretty endemic of just about any industry. Which industry out there doesn't have dickhead customers? Which industry is there where all the work you do is billable? None.

You win some, you lose some.

But if you are blind to the ways of the world, you will lose everything sooner or later.

Nothing even worth mentioning, really.

Yes they indeed are but I guess one of the points that Im trying to articulate is that its so easy everytime to 100% blame the 'big bad shop'' . There is very often more to the story

[Drew]

(And I've thought it over very carefully and I really can't imagine how a cold seizure could have damaged the gudgeon pin).

What have I missed? Where were the specifics of what went wrong with the bike?

I figured there had been a crank issue, because a piston and barrel for an RS125, or Aprilia scooter should be in stock in the country all the time.

[Robert Taylor]

What have I missed? Where were the specifics of what went wrong with the bike?

I figured there had been a crank issue, because a piston and barrel for an RS125, or Aprilia scooter should be in stock in the country all the time.

Yes, but heres an example of a scenario that happens, there is a plethora of engine seizures in a short time totally and quickly exhausting a reasonable stock holding of the affected parts. ( bear in mind that no distributor has a crystal ball ) The distributor re-orders only to be advised that the key parts are on ''factory backorder''. I.e the factory doesnt have stock and is awaiting key parts from contracted vendors ( factories by no means make all parts in house )
Believe me this happens A LOT. I remember several years back a popular model of a popular brand was delayed for production by a considerable period. The factory couldnt get the cast alloy wheels for this model as there was a severre shortage of the neccessary alloy. China had purchased much of the worlds available alloy at that time.
About 3 years back we couldnt get Ohlins MX steering dampers for at least six months and people were screaming at us. The reason was there was a key part that Ohlins couldnt get anyone to make to the tight clearances and very precise tolerances they desired. So until they achieved the standard they wanted they werent on sale.
Its not always fair to blame the dealer if you are not in full command of the facts. Equally, its probably better to be totally uniformed than only partly informed.
As for our Italian friends I love travelling around that country. But when you look at a map of Italy there is little wonder that it is shaped like a boot. Thats because there is no way you'd get that amount of shit in a shoe!

[mashman]

Equally, its no fun for the dealer at the coalface or the distributor.

Red tape is not something that I practice as a distributor, except where neccessary for protecting some from their own stupidity or ignorance. Especially where safety is at stake.

I'm under no illusion that there's pain on many fronts... however only 1 person is without both the money and the product.

Fit for purpose is fit for purpose. Red tape doesn't really stop that does it.

A donor bike is only workable if the offending part is a one off. If it is a part that fails on more than one bike then only the first failure in is sorted - the others have to wait ......and wait ...... and .........

Just gotta hope they don't all break down at once... which with Aprilia is highly unlikely given the numbers of them being sold each year. Fuck the rest of ya'll

[Katman]

What have I missed? Where were the specifics of what went wrong with the bike?

Towards the end of the article in the original post is another link that takes you to the Tribunal's ruling.

[HenryDorsetCase]

speaking of Aprilia I remember a few years ago (2006?) there was major problems with a very critical part of the rear suspension: it led to a bunch of failures and I think one death in Chermany. Early RSV Milles and Tuonos maybe? Dogbones underspecified?

As someone else said I love the RSV4 (and its my size and has electronic gubbins so I dont fire myself into the scenery). Would I buy one? Not so much. Unless I could have a wee Italian man in a chase van behind me every time I rode it.

[Robert Taylor]

I'm under no illusion that there's pain on many fronts... however only 1 person is without both the money and the product.

Fit for purpose is fit for purpose. Red tape doesn't really stop that does it.



Just gotta hope they don't all break down at once... which with Aprilia is highly unlikely given the numbers of them being sold each year. Fuck the rest of ya'll

No one is under any illusion that all goods should be fit for purpose. But a sensible level of ''red tape'' is not always put in place to hinder people, it is often there to protect people.
That the dealer has incurred a loss on this bike is a reality, they are also the biggest victim of events largely beyond their control. It is no small mercy that the tribunal rejected other claims submitted to them beyond a refund on the motorcycle.
Profit margins are being increasingly squeezed and if penalties for delayed repair times become draconian and commonplace then there will be less incentive to be a dealer. Thats a stark reality, whilst still having sympathy for the customers position.

[mashman]

speaking of Aprilia I remember a few years ago (2006?) there was major problems with a very critical part of the rear suspension: it led to a bunch of failures and I think one death in Chermany. Early RSV Milles and Tuonos maybe? Dogbones underspecified?

As someone else said I love the RSV4 (and its my size and has electronic gubbins so I dont fire myself into the scenery). Would I buy one? Not so much. Unless I could have a wee Italian man in a chase van behind me every time I rode it.

Yup. There are two guys in NZ that had linkage failure (a few more overseas), or what was attributed to linkage failure on the Gen 2 models (2004+). One alright, the other in a coma for a few weeks I believe (this he was on KB at some point too) The AF1 community got their shit together and made uprated link plates which we fitted ourselves due to Piaggio's reluctance to recognise the issue. There are other issues that they won't address, like the stator issue (due to a rotor issue) and something that being 5+ years out of warranty allows the issue to be ignored by them (even though they did change the rotor in 2007/8). Meh, bike eh.

No one is under any illusion that all goods should be fit for purpose. But a sensible level of ''red tape'' is not always put in place to hinder people, it is often there to protect people.
That the dealer has incurred a loss on this bike is a reality, they are also the biggest victim of events largely beyond their control. It is no small mercy that the tribunal rejected other claims submitted to them beyond a refund on the motorcycle.
Profit margins are being increasingly squeezed and if penalties for delayed repair times become draconian and commonplace then there will be less incentive to be a dealer. Thats a stark reality, whilst still having sympathy for the customers position.

Sure the dealer will feel some pain, but that comes with the territory surely... but I don't see them as the biggest victim at all coz dealing with unhappy customers (they're not unhappy because they broke their nail on the clutch lever are they) is a part of their job, especially when dealing with warranty/fit for purpose issues.
I was told by the guys in the shop one day that repair times and remuneration are based on a mech that's so proficient with the bike that he could likely strip it blindfolded, has every tool for the job at his disposal and it timed when performing a particular fix. So I'm aware that they get it from both ends, but they have options that the customer doesn't.

[kiwi cowboy]

Exactly, it's the old 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' story.

(And I've thought it over very carefully and I really can't imagine how a cold seizure could have damaged the gudgeon pin).

I haven't read where it says it was cold seized and don't know much about 2 smokes really but if it was cold seized isn't that a problem with how the bike was being warmed up or ridden more than a problem with the bike mechanically in its self.