The fascist regime that made you a moron: Thanks dJonkey

[Scuba_Steve]

Oh no, you're very right - in fact the poster in question complained about being called "lefty".

It's not a lefty thing, it's a half-wit thing.
They come in all stripes...

What more is there to say? I'll let you do the talking

you go from unsupported vitriolic opinion to abuse in about 2 seconds flat.
This makes you look stupid, and then you go on to the "..I know I am, but what are you?" school of (non)argument, which makes you look even dumber.

[Oscar]

The only information posted here is from those who have something to say & they back this up often with links......Not Talkback radio.
Unlike the "other" 1 or 2 who are closed minded bigots who never come up with opposing arguments or facts.....Go on Oscar , wheres all your evidence links to the contrary.....evidence not ignorance. Where are all the articles that you read (if you can) extolling the sucess of our society from around the world & its monetary system? Because you dont have any is why you resort to abuse.
And before you slag off previous Left wing Govts,(pre neo) if it wasnt for our social govts of the past you wouldnt have recieved free schooling, free health care free University etc etc....the very things which enabled you to be healthy & educated. But no. Most of the people at the top directly benefited from those policies & yet are the ones dismantling it or denying it to others.

What are you on about?
I helped elect those left wing governments.

As for "evidence to the contrary", what is the opposite of stupid?

For example - When I said:

“Tell us about how you opt out of the democratic process, but still want to have your own economic system.”

The half-witted reply was:

I must say it is quite amusing how you seem to think there's a democratic process to opt out of. Just a heads up the easter bunny doesn't exist either

Explain how I give evidence to the contrary when the statement gives no proof and is merely gainsaying what I said?

[Winston001]

So ... Operation 8 saw New Zealand childrern held at gunpoint on a school bus .. innocent New Zealand women and children turfed out of their beds on a cold morning at gunpoint ... New Zealand people stopped at gunpoint from going about their lawful business ...

All for a few months jail for a couple of people (they are out now) on minor firearms charges ... a rejection by the Solicitor General of the "Terrorism" accusations ... and an apology from the police for their over-reaction ...

Some Government agent (police, SIS, GCSB or whatever) hacked an MP's e-mail file ... on who's authority?? And an MP ??? Jeez wayne ...

And our Defence Forces class Investigative Journalists as a security threat ????

Do you wonder why we worry ??? We have seen the reality of state actions happen in our country ...

But the huge public interest regarding the issues you point to, investigations by journalists and scathing criticism from politicians and commentators including the Police Conduct Authority, all confirm how open and free our society is. Honestly, you should celebrate these woeful events because they provided public embarrasment and increased restrictions on the powers of the state.

If anything these events showed up just how limited our police/security/military are. Today the Speaker of Parliament apologised to the journalist tracked around Parliament. That would be unthinkable in many countries.

[Brian d marge]

I dont think there will be a "one off " event , but little by little things will get harder to do. Things like education slowly as the corporate model creeps in , the "costs" will go up and some will do very nicely thank you most will not

Im seeing a lot of young people from America who have completed a " degree" or even a masters and HAVE to travel in order to earn OR the family's house will go , ( depending on how you set up the loan )

Cant find the article now but it said something like 4 out of 5 middle class families are not breaking even ...

Doesnt matter

We are seeing , stronger policies put in place to control " perceived threats" ,,from whom? If we needed any survalance at all it, it would be to keep the multi nationals at bay, and reduce the exploitation of the planet
Talking of big business
Now Im NOT a greenie ..but even I can see , if ya chop down all the trees the place goes pear shaped. I live just outside Tokyo and the heat island effect is REALLY bad , ( the retards made a nice road , because a lovely new , not needed shopping mall is opening up soon ...its the biggest and bestest one ever so they say .....
The road is unbearable in summer as there is no shade , the local businesses will collapse .... and a few under paying jobs will be created ,,win win ,,,,not

So there does need to be checks on these greedy people .......

In the meantime how can I future proof my family .......well by reducing their dependence on "the system "

i mean if you dont use it and its percieved value to you is Nil , it doesnt bother you when it goes tits up !

that be the future I reckon

Stephen


ps you can still live IN the mess , but ya would have to keep your moral compass in line , eg , you could buy a new bike but to the best of you knowledge it would have to be a sustainable model ( how you would quantify that I am not sure) and paid for in cash, no ( or small and local ) debt
IMHO

[mashman]

Hey, Scumdog, check out the "Fantasists with an overinfiltrated sense of their own importance" file, could you?

Fixed for ya

Ah bollocks. As far as I can see, most of the great inventors and innovators get where they are *in spite of* society, not because of it.

A) Where do they get their knowledge? Dickhead II) Did they feed and cloth themselves, provide their own water, mine their own resources? Fail) Ahhhh listen to the libertarian blindly think he's the centre of the world having gotten to where he is all because of himself. Banana) Get an idea

[mashman]

I aplogise, I can see now that you're dragging me down to your level.

Impossible. You've never been up at my level.

[avgas]

Your right he is a bit of a fashist!



I just hope style improves. Not a fan of this fashion.

[mashman]

Lying really doesn't help their case.

[Akzle]

Labour offers no competition, its a farce
/video]

the twoparty adversarial system is a farce.
The illusion of choice.
The illusion anything will change

[Banditbandit]

But the huge public interest regarding the issues you point to, investigations by journalists and scathing criticism from politicians and commentators including the Police Conduct Authority, all confirm how open and free our society is. Honestly, you should celebrate these woeful events because they provided public embarrasment and increased restrictions on the powers of the state.

If anything these events showed up just how limited our police/security/military are. Today the Speaker of Parliament apologised to the journalist tracked around Parliament. That would be unthinkable in many countries.

Yes - and I want to keep it that way - I do not want our defence forces looking at investigative journalists as security threats and setting the GCSB on them ...

I do not want the GCSB spying on innocent New Zealanders ... Nor do I want another Operation 8 ... there have been too many such events in our history already ...

I do not want to be looking over my shoulder to see if the GCSB is spying on me ...

I do not want to see New Zealand women and children held at gunpoint again by armoured and masked AOS members ...

What is happening to our country people ??? Do we really need to have the spooks spy on all of us???

And it's not just a leftwing thing - some of the right wing groups and the survivalists and other nutters are armed ... and I worry that they are far more capable of violent action than the left in GodZone - which is pretty wimpy really ..

But just because I disagree with them and worry about their potential for action I would defend their right to free speech and to go about their lawful business without being spied on either ...

[Winston001]

Yes - and I want to keep it that way - I do not want our defence forces looking at investigative journalists as security threats and setting the GCSB on them ...

Except there are journalists - and then there are activists. Nicky Hagar is an activist and good on him. We need such people. However if I was a soldier I wouldn't trust him not to reveal my unit, my location, my full name, where my family lived etc etc. Both left and right-wing activists tend to be zealous people who don't care if ordinary people get crushed along the way.

Journalists are accepted in war zones. Activists, not so much.

I do not want the GCSB spying on innocent New Zealanders ... Nor do I want another Operation 8 ... there have been too many such events in our history already ...

I do not want to be looking over my shoulder to see if the GCSB is spying on me ...

So far as I know the GCSB will not be spying on mum and dad and the kids. They don't have the time, the resources, and any reason to do so. They will however be able to assist the Police where permission is granted.

As for Operation 8 - too many such events in our history?? Nonsense. The only similar thing I can think of in the past 50 years is the Dawn Raids of 1976 when the police actively sought Pacific Islander overstayers. Distasteful yes, but lawful, and it happens daily in the USA. Including kiwis who get caught overstaying. US Immigration doesn't apologise or muck about.

And lets be honest about the Urawera raids for once. People were conspiring together with weapons, dressed in quasi-military fatigues, and observed to be training. Furthermore hunters in the area were threatened. I'd be shocked if the police didn't take action.

[Scuba_Steve]

So far as I know the GCSB will not be spying on mum and dad and the kids.

Give it a couple years, then they'll start selling the service to Hollywood & the US Govt

And lets be honest about the Urawera raids for once. People were conspiring together with weapons, dressed in quasi-military fatigues, and observed to be training. N/A. I'd be shocked if the police didn't take action.

Hell that's a Tues night for me, I'd be pretty pissed off if the cops showed up all the time!

[SPman]

They will however be able to assist the Police where permission is granted.

And if you believe that shit then god help you!

[Akzle]

Forced on you by whom?

And yes it is by definition "mob rule", but I happen to like it, so why am I obliged to tell you how to opt out?
The fact that we have a democracy enables you to indulge in your whinging and bitching, and also gives me the freedom to tell you to get fucked and find your own way to opt out..

er. To answer your first question: Wite folk with blankets and muskets and legislation.

Now, i take it you actually still have no answers to any of mine?

[Akzle]

As for Operation 8 - too many such events in our history?? Nonsense.

And lets be honest about the Urawera raids for once. People were conspiring together with weapons, dressed in quasi-military fatigues, and *ILLEGALLY * observed to be training. Furthermore hunters in the area were threatened. I'd be shocked if the police didn't take action.

two problems. 1-you expect the police to do useful things. Or rather, things to further your own agenda or your idea of 'good society'. The fact that it happened to be supressing revolutionaries, well, thats just what civilised countries do, innit.
2- there have been many of those TYPE of operations. Ive had neighbourhoods locked down for less, and to date, havent shot anything/one to death unintentionally.
The fact that they dont always make the 6oclock doesnt mean they dont happen.

Theres hope for you yet, at least you actually think about things, to form your position...