David Bain vs The Crown - game over

[leathel]

There are several different ways to use your fingers adn thumb to load a magazine (I don't habitually use any method that leaves marks like this)

If you hold the mag in one hand facing away from you and push the round in with your thumb, you are right, the lines would be on the thumb, running from top to bottom, and if you hold he magazine sideas adn push it across with your thumb the lines will be running accross the thumb, not up and down. (This method is easiest to do with one hand) THis is the way the marks on Robin's thumb may well have been produced when he loaded the magazine.

But if you hold the magazine sideways in one hand and push the round in with your finger you are likely to get the marks running across a finger.

The mark on Robin's finger could be because he loaded the mag using both grips at differnet times (yes, if he commonly used the gun he would only use one method - it wasn't his gun and he may not be used to it and he may have used different methods - yes, a lot of "may" )or it could be because he brushed his fingers across a different part of the gun or mag ...

if he loaded the mag 2 ways to get the marks like that it is very very uncanny that the lines almost line up with his hand in the position it ended up in..... almost like the mag may have been dropped on the dead hand end first and fell to the side

[Edbear]

if he loaded the mag 2 ways to get the marks like that it is very very uncanny that the lines almost line up with his hand in the position it ended up in..... almost like the mag may have been dropped on the dead hand end first and fell to the side

Yup, just falling neatly onto its edge...

[Katman]

Yup, just falling neatly onto its edge...

Why do you think it's strange that the magazine is on it's edge?

It didn't necessarily 'fall' there - it could just have easily (and more likely) been 'placed' there.

[MisterD]

It didn't necessarily 'fall' there - it could just have easily (and more likely) been 'placed' there.

Exactly, by David staging the scene after he'd shot his father.

[Katman]

Exactly, by David staging the scene after he'd shot his father.

Or just as easily by Robin before he shot himself.

[scott411]

I thought the defence said that Robin wore gloves, and that is why there were no makes on him, now he loaded the mag with bare hands, and put gloves on?

[Katman]

I thought the defence said that Robin wore gloves, and that is why there were no makes on him, now he loaded the mag with bare hands, and put gloves on?

With the number of shots and misfires one of the magazines had to be reloaded at some stage during the shooting.

That could have occurred after the gloves were taken off.

[Banditbandit]

What would you say if the police run their tests and say the gun only has David's prints on it, and they're in human blood?

I'd say that proves that David handled the gun that day - maybe he handled it when he got home and found every one dead - maybe he was the one who handled it and pulled the trigger and killed them all. It would increase the evidence against David. That is not the case though. The bloood was not human.


David's fingerprints were on the gun - not surprising - it was his gun. Stephen's prints were on the gun - not surprising .. he may have gone shooting things with his older brother - if Stephen grabbed the gun during a struggle with the gunman I would not expect to frind his fingerprints on the gun. He would be grabbing the barrel or that end of the gun - his fingers would go right around and not necessarily make a good print on that part of the gun. If Stephen's fingerprints were found on the butt and around the breach I would say they were not left there during a struggle with the gunman.

I understand there were also other fingerprints on the gun, but not up to evidential standard to say whose prints they were.

Fingerprints prove that someone handled the gun. The lack of fingerprints to evidential standard does NOT prove that another person did not handle the gun.

[scissorhands]

I thought the defence said that Robin wore gloves, and that is why there were no makes on him, now he loaded the mag with bare hands, and put gloves on?

one would remove gloves to reload a magazine, as a biker inserts his ignition key before wearing both gloves

[Banditbandit]

If you know anything about using guns, gloves are not really an option - unless you use very light rubber gloves, anything else will make it pretty hard to get a finger through the trigger guard and around the trigger - I hunted in very cold weather with fingerless gloves (or adapted woollen ones with the index finger shortened) so I could get through the trigger guard.

I always wondered why the defense made that claim ??? It actually weakens their case ... in that it's stretching credibility to believe that.

[Murray]

Exactly, by David staging the scene after he'd shot his father.

Or just as easily by Robin before he shot himself.

Why would Robin want to stage a scene if he left a note saying David was the only one who deserved to live - surely he would not want to stage anything that might implicate David??

[Edbear]

Exactly, by David staging the scene after he'd shot his father.



Why would Robin want to stage a scene if he left a note saying David was the only one who deserved to live - surely he would not want to stage anything that might implicate David??

Logic has no place in this thread...

[Hinny]

I think David's keenness to get the rifle back is very telling.

Bandit bandit Asserting that the blood was not human is merely believing one expert over another.

Two conflicting assertions by experts makes it inconclusive as far as I am concerned.

A clear case of believing what you want to believe.

The defence 'experts' are worrisome.
Like the Pathologist they brought over from England. Or should I say 'we' brought over from England.
Gave his testimony, contradicted the NZ pathologist and then buggered off back to England before he could be cross-examined.
He was going to be cross examined by video link but it failed. Tui moment.
He was as believable as that joke they brought over from Tasmania to assert "I shot the prick, I shot/" sounded to him like "I can't".
It must have taken some searching to find these people. Have to search all over the world for them.

[Katman]

Why would Robin want to stage a scene if he left a note saying David was the only one who deserved to live - surely he would not want to stage anything that might implicate David??

What is so staged about placing a magazine on the floor beside you before topping yourself?

Robin was shot by the rifle - not the magazine.

If the rifle had landed balanced on the end of it's barrel, that might have been worthy of mention. The magazine standing on it's side isn't.

[Murray]

What is so staged about placing a magazine on the floor beside you before topping yourself?
If the rifle had landed balanced on the end of it's barrel, that might have been worthy of mention. The magazine standing on it's side isn't.

Exactly, by David staging the scene after he'd shot his father.

Or just as easily by Robin before he shot himself.

Your the one who wrote "Or just as easily blah blah blah"
Now its "what is so staged"

Make up your mind!!