MSAC - Two new members wanted

[bogan]

And while we are being forced to pay it, are you happy to leave that up to officials only?

How would we tell the difference?

I don't think any biker would argue we have got value for money so far. Seems more like it was originally a ploy to take the wind out of protest action by getting the protest organisations into the fold.

Regardless of how good your intentions and the intentions of other member are or were (stoney got shitcanned for his it would seem), shit is just not getting done, we get fuck all input into things, and fuck all updates on things.

[Zedder]

I come back to two points. Are you doing something to change the rules so we don't need t pay the $30 bucks. And while we are being forced to pay it, are you happy to leave that up to officials only?

I don't have to do the MSAC thing, it would be easier not to.

Maybe I should bury my head in the sand. Am I on the right track...

Here's a bit of a plan:

Firstly: Direct NZTA to the relevant section of the Vic Roads web site: http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...cleSafetyLevy/

Secondly: Suggest they implement the same treatments.

Thirdly: Stop charging Kiwi motorcyclists.

Lastly: Shut up shop and go motorcycling.

[Pampera]

MotoNZ paid for this presentation to be made to the Trafinz conference:

http://trafinz.org.nz/workspace/down...dfcb668f97.pdf


This presentation was promoted as setting out the results of credible studies into the performance of crash barriers on motorcycle safety; "Motorcycle Safety and Roadside Barriers". The normal expected approach for a report on a study of this type, if it follows the normal rules for work with claims to rigor, is to provide a summary, set out the hypothesis or theory being tested - with perhaps some context, describe the experimental method or analysis carried out, present results, analyse and review the results and then use these results to support a conclusion.

What we have is summary or abstract, no real structure, just a random selection of images leavened with lurid and emotive "sound bites" in a variety of fonts and formats. Try out this:

"Elephant in the room!
Large controversy with motorcyclists
concerning installation of road safety
barrier but in particular wire rope barriers"


Rather than a sober statement of a hypothesis to be tested we have:

"All sorts of myths and claims being made
concerning roadside barriers."


The conclusion to the presentation includes the following, coming out of nowhere:

"Recommendations
• Require that a person must have a full
driver’s licence before they can apply for a
motorcycle licence.
• "returning" riders: Re-testing at various
intervals in order to retain licence currency
(once obtained it seems they remain forever,
even if no riding has occurred for years.)
• Require ISA speed limiters for motorcycles.
• Require alcohol interlocks for motorcycles.
Recommendations
• Require ABS breaking [sic.]".


How exactly do these recommendations find their way into a presentation of the results of a research study into the effectiveness or otherwise of crash barriers ("Motorcycle Safety and Roadside Barriers")? What is more, nowhere in the presentation is there set out any data, testing or analysis relating to the ABS or the licencing recommendations.

To me this presentation has more of the feel of partisan campaigning or crusading than scientific research.

Whatever the answer to the question "are barriers are safe or not?" is , the impression this presentation delivers does not encourage confidence in the work behind it.


Michael

[buggerit]

I agree, making roads safer is worthwhile, considering roads are designed for trucks and cars, not motorbikes. MSAC has done a bit of work in this area, looking at the Southern Coromandal loop to see what road engineering features it would be useful to promote to road controlling authorities around the country. Recently Council considered a request from the NZTA to part fund some upgrades to the southern Coromandel loop and the Council agreed to do this. ACC is now working with the NZTA to make this happen. Once this work is done, it should form a useful template for works elsewhere in NZ.

The Chair has summarised this work http://motonz.org.nz/news/council-update-september-2013/ (See Project updates Southern Coromandel Loop initiative).

So they are going to add a heap more nonslip(bullshit) paint to the road ,(200mm wide side markings and 300*500 chevrons before corners) ,and this will make it safer?, god help us! these idiots are a fucking danger to us all

[Berries]

How exactly do these recommendations find their way into a presentation of the results of a research study into the effectiveness or otherwise of crash barriers ("Motorcycle Safety and Roadside Barriers")? What is more, nowhere in the presentation is there set out any data, testing or analysis relating to the ABS or the licencing recommendations.

Quite right when you look at the PDF you posted, those recommendations are quite random and in no way linked to any of the information presented. I have seen the content of that report presented by Fergus Tate recently and he actually came across quite well. He didn't mention any of those recommendations though, probably realised they were bullshit and without any context.

What I find astounding is in the link that MrKiwi posted earlier showing what our $30 is being spent on. Things that benefit all road users and things that NZTA should be doing for all road users - and they actually do do for all road users. I went over the Lindis Pass today, big wide edge lines over the top. I went past intersections where the side roads have been sealed further to prevent gravel migration. I saw lots of new curve signage. It all benefits all road users. My how NZTA must have rubbed their hands together when they saw the big bucket of $30 notes looking for a home. Here's the link.

I have no idea where the Coro Loop is but it sounds like it is one of those roads that riders like because it has lots of twisty bits. Riders fall off on twisty bits. Something to do with it being twisty and the laws of physics and natural selection. I'd like to think my 'donation' to the cause will do something to help all those people up there who don't know how to read a road or who like riding slightly beyond their ability. It won't.

How do I get a refund? Actually, trying to be constructive for a second, I don't personally think it matters who decides where the $30 will be spent. For the life of me I cannot think of a single thing that my $30pa could be spent on that will reduce the chance of me becoming a statistic. That is why I am anti this particular tax.

[willytheekid]

Well!...the community has spoken aye



...allow me to sum up...for clarity!


MotoNZ HAD there chance...and they failed!...spectacularly!!

...We simply don't want any more "CEO/bussinessmen/corporate/council types" being apppointed to " direct" the current selfserving positions

...the actual motorcyclists of NZ want that bullshit $30 fee REMOVED!!...And motonz removed as the "voice" of NZ riders!

...thats twice now


David...your personal efforts are not being called into question here (at least you have made an effort!...unlike most of us)
...it is the lack of action and the excessive amounts of spin & smart talking, self-serving bullshit!! coming out of MotoNZ that is.


The only group MotoNZ has served well...is themselves!



...hope that was an acceptable summary Kbers (now...await the "hand off" to the now defunct group Bronz to make these changes happen......clever wee set up aint it!)

[Jeff Sichoe]

Holy shit, are you kidding me that MOTONZ subbmited these recommendations??

Recommendations
• Require that a person must have a full
driver’s licence before they can apply for a
motorcycle licence.
• "returning" riders: Re-testing at various
intervals in order to retain licence currency
(once obtained it seems they remain forever,
even if no riding has occurred for years.)
• Require ISA speed limiters for motorcycles.
• Require alcohol interlocks for motorcycles.
Recommendations
• Require ABS breaking [sic.]

??

That is fucking bullshit, seriously.

Fuck off you homos and get the fuck away from my bike.

Speed Limiters? FUCK OFF
Alchohol interlocks??? FUCK YOU CUNT
ABS Breaks? Get good you spastics and learn how to ride without relying on technology to save your retarded ass.

JESUS FUCK

[Smifffy]

I think we'd be better off to make all cage drivers get a bike licence first. A couple of years on a bike might reduce the SMIDSYs, and might alter everyone's perception of motorcyclists.

[MSTRS:Me]

I think we'd be better off to make all cage drivers get a bike licence first. A couple of years on a bike might reduce the SMIDSYs, and might alter everyone's perception of motorcyclists.

Correct. Have said that for years.
Has the added bonus of Darwin sorting out those who should never be allowed behind the wheel...

[Smifffy]

Correct. Have said that for years.
Has the added bonus of Darwin sorting out those who should never be allowed behind the wheel...

So you are agreeing with the ACC posit that bikes are more dangerous and therefore deserve higher levies?

[Swoop]

People seem to be complaining about the 30 bucks and were exactly its going.

Just give us a $30- fuel voucher to put petrol in our tank.

Well, those who actually pay a rego. Silly people.

[swbarnett]

So you are agreeing with the ACC posit that bikes are more dangerous and therefore deserve higher levies?

This part of my sig. should explain his point:

"Motorcycling is not inherently dangerous. It is, however, EXTREMELY unforgiving of inattention, ignorance, incompetence and stupidity!" - Anonymous

Bikes are NOT dangerous. Some riders, yes.

[swbarnett]

ABS Breaks? Get good you spastics and learn how to ride without relying on technology to save your retarded ass.

I did a day's training with RoadSafe on the weekend. The ABS bike was repeatedly outbreaked by non-ABS ones.

[rastuscat]

My motivation from being on the Council is simple. I would rather try and influence how the $30 each year taken off me and you is spent than let officials be the sole arbitrators of that. We are making some progress on this front, but not as fast as I, or my fellow Councillors, would like. Being on the Council is not for everyone admittedly. Also, since I am on the Council, it pays to let people keep me honest so I'm not taking all of the above posts as personal criticism. Some of it is, though, a little over the top in my view.

Applied.

Yes, far easier to sit on the sidelines and bag those who make an effort.

Put your hands up citizens.

Actually don't, I'd rather be elected unopposed.

Donuts.

[Pampera]

Actually don't, I'd rather be elected unopposed.

If we pretend that motorcyclists did get a say in the makeup of MSAC, what is in your manifesto? I want to make sure my hypothetical vote goes to the right candidate.
Regards,
Michael