New Ngauranga camera

[Berg]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/9357...up-46-per-cent

"Police have provided data on fastest recorded speeds at camera sites in the past, but refused to specify September's fastest gorge drivers - declining the data "in the interest of public safety".

"Police do not want to encourage copycat offending by presenting what may be seen as a target to some drivers," the Official Information Act response read.

Mr Stables said: "Police will not be releasing these figures due to concerns that it glamorises unsafe driver behaviour." In recent years, cars have been clocked travelling as fast as 168kmh down the gorge."

Translation: There's a boat load of people here speeding all the time and not crashing, releasing the numbers would contradict our antispeed message.
One thing I've noticed is that whenever there is these newspaper articles in the oh wow category of we caught someone fast its never more than the 170ish mark, except for that duke rider in Napier snapped at eskdale.
I agree speed is dangerous and we need enforcement to some level but wonder what they police think they will achieve not revealing info here... Wonder what the average patrol car speed past there is responding to the suburbs/city?

Sooooo, would you rather the police have to respond to rapes, murders, assaults at normal road speed remembering that police drivers HAVE to pass a practical driving test regularly? I think I would trust a police driver "priority one" driving as opposed to some of the other LCD (lowest common denominator) drivers in NZ.
Having had a speed camera ticket in a patrol car I can assure the paper war is long and tedious if you believe it was obtained while needing to respond to an incident at speed and many cops have just paid them as their notes have not stood up to the required scrutiny.
As for the Gorge camera, let's call it what it really is. An enforcement tool for detecting stupidity. Anybody with media access or local knowledge knows this camera is there yet many locals still get snapped (yep I've spoken to a few). And saying people don't crash in the Gorge is also completely incorrect. There are several crashes there every month (many nose to tail) with some being very serious. The camera is just one tool the police are using to attempt to lower that crash rate (and yep, that sounds like the company line but that's why I go to work. I don't have a ticket quota, I don't make any extra for issuing tickets, the police make nothing from issuing tickets, I'm just interested in everybody being safe and everybody paying what they are required to pay just like I have to)

[Scuba_Steve]

Sooooo, would you rather the police have to respond to rapes, murders, assaults at normal road speed remembering that police drivers HAVE to pass a practical driving test regularly? I think I would trust a police driver "priority one" driving as opposed to some of the other LCD (lowest common denominator) drivers in NZ.

Wait! when did the Govt introduce financial penalties for these? Or have the Police gone back to doing their job in recent months that I wasn't aware of?
So Popo HAVE to "pass practical driving test regularly" yet they still can't drive; these aren't the same "driving tests" taxi drivers take is it?

As for the Gorge camera, let's call it what it really is. An enforcement tool for detecting stupidity.

If you're gonna "call it what it really is" do so! it's a scam tool used for profit! nothing more

Anybody with media access or local knowledge knows this camera is there yet many locals still get snapped (yep I've spoken to a few). And saying people don't crash in the Gorge is also completely incorrect. There are several crashes there every month (many nose to tail) with some being very serious. The camera is just one tool the police are using to attempt to lower that crash rate (and yep, that sounds like the company line but that's why I go to work. I don't have a ticket quota, I don't make any extra for issuing tickets, the police make nothing from issuing tickets, I'm just interested in everybody being safe and everybody paying what they are required to pay just like I have to)

And yet it's failing miserably in-fact it makes the gorge more dangerous than it needs to be.
Strange to how before the camera is 100, after the camera is 100, but past the camera is 80 on a hill at a decent grade no less, hmm I wonder why it's setup like that...
No-ones trying to "lower the crash rate here" if they were they'd make it 100 & remove the camera, no they're trying to scam people for a fuckload of cash moneys that is all.

[roogazza]

Sooooo, would you rather the police have to respond to rapes, murders, assaults at normal road speed remembering that police drivers HAVE to pass a practical driving test regularly? I think I would trust a police driver "priority one" driving as opposed to some of the other LCD (lowest common denominator) drivers in NZ.

Berg, I'd be interested to hear about the current Police driver testing at regular intervals? I was involved with Police driver training for nearly 10 years. Though that was from 35 years ago !
Your average policeman, is average as a driver. I'm betting they still won't allow training in speed even tho they go to the local Wgton track Manfeild.
I was involved way back with the introduction of track work, but I can say that we fought tooth and nail for years with Nat headquarters, sometimes just for our very existance. Imagine Police wiping driver Training ? Which is exactly what they tried at one stage.

[Berg]

Wait! when did the Govt introduce financial penalties for these? Or have the Police gone back to doing their job in recent months that I wasn't aware of?
So Popo

Have a little respect. Mr Popo was the charming individual who ran over and killed a Porirua policeman while attempting to evade a few years back! By using that nickname for police you are showing a little disrespect

HAVE to "pass practical driving test regularly" yet they still can't drive; these aren't the same "driving tests" taxi drivers take is it?

Ahh, no.



If you're gonna "call it what it really is" do so! it's a scam tool used for profit! nothing more



And yet it's failing miserably in-fact it makes the gorge more dangerous than it needs to be.
Strange to how before the camera is 100, after the camera is 100, but past the camera is 80 on a hill at a decent grade no less, hmm I wonder why it's setup like that...
No-ones trying to "lower the crash rate here" if they were they'd make it 100 & remove the camera, no they're trying to scam people for a fuckload of cash moneys that is all.

Let's study that 80kph area. Steep downhill, merging traffic from Johnsonville, Newlands, ultra heavy traffic flows both North and South, trucks pulling into and out of Taylor Preston's and the quarry and, to finish off, a shitload of nose to tails often nowhere near the camera because the average Wellington driver is in fact very average at best.

But hey, I've had my licks from cameras in the past and I still see them as somewhat of a speed deterrent. If I travelling in a known camera spot I ensure I'm not speeding. How can that be difficult?

[Scuba_Steve]

Let's study that 80kph area. Steep downhill, merging traffic from Johnsonville, Newlands, ultra heavy traffic flows both North and South, trucks pulling into and out of Taylor Preston's and the quarry and, to finish off, a shitload of nose to tails often nowhere near the camera because the average Wellington driver is in fact very average at best.

But hey, I've had my licks from cameras in the past and I still see them as somewhat of a speed deterrent. If I travelling in a known camera spot I ensure I'm not speeding. How can that be difficult?

That camera has failed to decrease the accident rate it's still the same if not higher than back when that road was dangerous with an intersection at the top, merging is MUCH easier at faster speeds & the trucks coming out can't even achieve 60 let alone 80.

travelling to a known camera zone you "ensure you're not speeding", how you do that then? I can tell you every day theres thousands of people doing that usually by heavy braking regardless of speed & steering at a speedo rather than the road or vehicles around of them... but hey that's what you call "safety" right!

[Banditbandit]

I was on Ngauranga Gorge - down on Friday, back up on Sunday .. it's fucking hard to keep to 80ks .. I needed to use brakes going down .. simply letting it roll, means I got too much speed on ... engine braking was not nearly good enough

Going up was nearly as bad ... I kept changing between 2nd and 3rd to keep the speed down ...

I was wondering if there were cameras in the gorge ... maybe I should expect a ticket in a couple of weeks ..

[pzkpfw]

What I hate about this stuff is it can be indiscriminant.

Having been overseas a few weeks, I came back to a car with an expired WOF. Now, I knew it was up to WOF standard, so drove it to the dealer for its annual service and WOF check - would anyone expect a tow truck to be used? (It passed the WOF with zero issues). And of course, until the WOF was done, I couldn't get the license either.

(The timing of it all meant that I hadn't sorted this stuff before the trip. Maybe I could have been smarter.)

I drove past the gorge camera to do go to the dealer (early morning, no time to "waste" going the "long way"), and apparently with plate recognition I could be getting a "no WOF" ticket in the mail.

The kicker is, if I were deliberately not getting a WOF over an extended period, or was someone not buying my license as an ACC protest or something, I could easily just drive a different way and avoid the gorge camera.

We are humans, not computers, and even when we basically try to follow the rules we need some flexibility (a-la x km/h margin on speeding tickets). What's the margin on the gorge?

[Berg]

What I hate about this stuff is it can be indiscriminant.

Having been overseas a few weeks, I came back to a car with an expired WOF. Now, I knew it was up to WOF standard, so drove it to the dealer for its annual service and WOF check - would anyone expect a tow truck to be used? (It passed the WOF with zero issues). And of course, until the WOF was done, I couldn't get the license either.

(The timing of it all meant that I hadn't sorted this stuff before the trip. Maybe I could have been smarter.)

I drove past the gorge camera to do go to the dealer (early morning, no time to "waste" going the "long way"), and apparently with plate recognition I could be getting a "no WOF" ticket in the mail.

The kicker is, if I were deliberately not getting a WOF over an extended period, or was someone not buying my license as an ACC protest or something, I could easily just drive a different way and avoid the gorge camera.

We are humans, not computers, and even when we basically try to follow the rules we need some flexibility (a-la x km/h margin on speeding tickets). What's the margin on the gorge?

If? you get a WOF ticket in this situation you have a lawful defence. You will be required to prove that you were in deed taking said vehicle for a WOF to the infringement bureau and it should go away. Unsure of camera tolerance but suspect (suspect only) 10% (8kph) or the standard 10kph

[Scuba_Steve]

If? you get a WOF ticket in this situation you have a lawful defence. You will be required to prove that you were in deed taking said vehicle for a WOF to the infringement bureau and it should go away. Unsure of camera tolerance but suspect (suspect only) 10% (8kph) or the standard 10kph

been there, done that, it's bullshit. They're [] there to extort, you have to take them to court to be granted even a possibility of your legal rights.
And the camera has 4km/h tolerance reported by the great media propaganda machine

[Ender EnZed]

No mention in this latest article about any tickets issued for no WOF/Rego. Is there any actual evidence this is an ANPR camera?

And the camera has 4km/h tolerance reported by the great media propaganda machine

Got a link? I've been past it plenty of times assuming the limit was 89km/h and never got a ticket.

[Scuba_Steve]

No mention in this latest article about any tickets issued for no WOF/Rego. Is there any actual evidence this is an ANPR camera?

Na I haven't seen anything official, but they have said the new cams along with the multi-lane scamming can also do red-light runners, & "lane non-compliance"
But they do mention "other advanced features" no mention exactly what they are other than to list a few as above so it might still be a possibility, just not a confirmed one or one currently operational as I'm sure they'll me more than happy to tell everyone more ways they tend to illegally extract money.

Got a link? I've been past it plenty of times assuming the limit was 89km/h and never got a ticket.

Na I've got a PDF on my laptop but the motherboard died on Fri so won't be able to get it off till I get that fixed.
Tho looking round the Googley I might have got that slightly wrong, seems it might have been that these new ones with the remote command can be adjusted for the 4km/h holiday scam & run at the usual scam "tolerance" rest of time.

[R650R]

Sooooo, would you rather the police have to respond to rapes, murders, assaults at normal road speed...

No I didn't say something that silly, just that it would be interesting to see the numbers/stats.
I'm all for the cops going flat out to catch crooks that's what we pay them for and don't think they should abandon pursuits either as I've seen several times people that they've been chasing come past our place like a rocket even though they've abandoned it...
I live near a busy junction so I'm regularly treated to the sounds of an SV6 commodore being redlined in 2nd and third gear down the street... at night the tyre noise from them coming down the main drag is quite surreal too...
Like another poster mentioned though I do find their vehicle operation a bit untidy at times. They need to learn the in slow out fast technique, all too often they are pushing the front end of those cars a bit too hard mid corner.
I find it hard to believe that its too hard to keep record of when patrols are responding to urgent incidents and are getting tickets for it... but that's an internal; issue for you guys to sort out...
I think the real reason we wont see the stats from that camera is that the 85% percentile speed is quite high...
Oh well it wont be long before we're all GPS tracked and ticketed automatically by computer, wont even get treated to the spectacle of red and blue lights...

[roogazza]

No mention in this latest article about any tickets issued for no WOF/Rego. Is there any actual evidence this is an ANPR camera?

Got a link? I've been past it plenty of times assuming the limit was 89km/h and never got a ticket.

It's pretty safe to assume it's a more capable speed camera. As they've said, it does multi lanes, so just an update.
It won't be mentioned tho to keep you on your toes lol.

I would have thought if it was ANPR there would be pursuit vehicles nearby, No ?
Snapping away all day everyday generating paper doen't seem logical.Then courts would be full of Not Guilties ?

[Ender EnZed]

It's pretty safe to assume it's a more capable speed camera. As they've said, it does multi lanes, so just an update.
It won't be mentioned tho to keep you on your toes lol.

It always seemed likely. It could well be they just haven't started using it's full capabilities yet though it would be a bit surprising if it turns out they tried for but didn't get the necessary political support for ANPR when it was installed.

I would have thought if it was ANPR there would be pursuit vehicles nearby, No ?
Snapping away all day everyday generating paper doen't seem logical.Then courts would be full of Not Guilties ?

Why? Once the camera takes a photo then they've got all the evidence they need to issue an infringement notice.