And I say again with 20/20 hindsight you are always rightOriginally Posted by pete376403
Forum whore
And I say again with 20/20 hindsight you are always right
Forum whore
The problem with afterdamp is it can cause a coal dust explosion so there is no appropriate equipment. IIRC, the first step after a mining explosion, is to test the atmosphere and then work out the next step.
Hardcore Biker
They can΄t afford to - even letting "volunteer" rescuers down would have opened them up to being sued/fined for allowing more people to be put at risk inside the mine.
I love the smell of twin V16's in the morning..
Anarchic Wild Child
Can I send your Tapatalk phone a 30-odd year apology - I admit that plywood sheidls made very good weapons - especially if police bend down to hit protetor's legs ... and then look down ... offering their necks below their helmets as perfect targets ...
But I don't agree that "peaceful" protestors should not get their just deserts .. I knew what would occur ... police were doing exactly as the PTB in our society demanded of them ... and responded to civil disobedience ... I do object to the fact that the women around me got hit a lot more thabn I did .. I wonder why ???
Different times .. different actions ..
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Anarchic Wild Child
As far as I am aware Parihaka was not a police action .. it was what became our army's action ..
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
Anarchic Wild Child
Or that they had gone in .. and been affected by gas .. just as the Brunner Mine first rescuers were .. and then had to be rescued themselves - or died ..
"So if you meet me, have some sympathy, have some courtesy, have some taste ..."
I'ma get medieval on your ass!
Beat me to it.
A lot of the rescuers in the Brunner mine (1896) had to be carried out themselves after becoming unconcious. Still they kept at it and it took several days to reach the men - all 65 of them dead sadly.
The thing about Pike is any rescuers had to walk 1.5 km to the drift and that's too far even with modern breathing equipment, never mind rock falls and fires along the way.
Nevertheless part of me says they should have let volunteers go in.
Anorak
This has to be replied to.Beat me to it.
A lot of the rescuers in the Brunner mine (1896) had to be carried out themselves after becoming unconcious. Still they kept at it and it took several days to reach the men - all 65 of them dead sadly.
The thing about Pike is any rescuers had to walk 1.5 km to the drift and that's too far even with modern breathing equipment, never mind rock falls and fires along the way.
Nevertheless part of me says they should have let volunteers go in.
the parallels between the Brunner explosion need to be drawn.
there was at least another 200 odd people in the Brunner mine at the time of the explosion. these were working in another section that were able to leave the mine unaided through the other methods of egress available to them from the mine.
The section of the Brunner mine that blew was ventilated from a single drive like the Pike mine. The return airway was constructed by portioning the drive into two section with bratice (air in Air out, up the middle) when the mine blew so did the partition so if any people had have survived the explosion were killed the flumes that were then directed at them by the ventilation.
The Brunner mine also had its fan positioned outside the mine in a accessible location, which makes a lot of sense doesn't it.
In hindsight it was suggested that in the case of the Brunner explosion that they could have immediately flipped the belts and reversed the fan to remove all the toxic fumes, But that's the beauty of hindsight, I believe they did this later.
these options were not available in the case of the Pike mine due fan being located about km's underground possibly on the other-side of a rockfall and mining gear (at least two pieces of large equipment)
The owners of PIke were secured creditors carried insurance yet they seem to have no liability over the actions of the company, they own, it is a sad reflection of Human nature and the corporate mentality. NZOG has behaved shamefully. As did the owners of the Brunner mine over a hundred years ago.
if anyone wants to look into the ownership of NZOG they will be surprised at some of the shareholders. ACC WTF
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
In the riders seat
New Zealand Armed Constabulary who were also used as police
"If you can make black marks on a straight from the time you turn out of a corner until the braking point of the next turn, then you have enough power."
Anorak
Both sides were not exactly innocent of atrocities were they?
Parihaka
The Waitangi Tribunal’s 1996 interim Taranaki report, which stated, “The invasion and sacking of Parihaka must rank with the most heinous actions of any government in the last century” (referring to the 1800s). The Tribunal called it “the holocaust of Taranaki history.”
This ignorant and gross distortion of the truth has been repeated by several Treatyists, including M.P. Tariana Turia, and a language teacher in New Plymouth, who is described as a “Maori academic” (as they all are), Keri Opai. Mr Opai backed this ridiculous claim of “holocaust” by citing “the pillaging of Parihaka”.
The name of this place is starting to enter the lexicon of the grievance industry in a big way, with the Human Rights Commission making the statement, “The events that took place in and around Parihaka….have affected the political, cultural and spiritual dynamics of the entire country.” There have even been calls to have a special national day celebrated as “Parihaka Day”. So, it is time to look at the facts.
Fact No. 1 By the time of the Treaty of Waitangi there were only about a hundred and fifty Maori left in the whole of Taranaki. Roughly a third of the population had been massacred by invading tribes from Waikato, around another third had been taken back to the Waikato as slaves, while the remaining third had fled to the Wellington Area
Nine hundred members of this last third then invaded the Chatham Islands in 1835 where they killed, ate and all but exterminated the peaceful Moriori who lived there. A hundred or more Moriori women were laid out on the beach and stakes were driven through their bodies, the men being treated similarly. They were then eaten by Taranaki Maori. The Moriori population of about 1,600 was reduced to 101 survivors.
These were the Taranaki “holocausts” – Waikato Maori slaughtering Taranaki Maori, and Taranaki tribes butchering the peaceful Moriori.
Kinky is using a feather. Perverted is using the whole chicken
Forum whore
No,no,no! It was those evil colonists who did it all, everything was hunky dory before they came, ask banditbandit...
Forum whore
Neither version is particularly fair..
Yes - Maori of the time could be rather bloodthirsty.... The enabler was the musket which became the currency of the time. Northern Maori had more contact (in quantity) earlier and certainly gained a jump in the arms race. Distant insults were dredged up and where they didnt exist, new ones were often manufactured to let the men of war do what they liked to do best of all.... It wasnt nice...
After the treaty only the Government was allowed to 'aquire' Maori land - apparently to stop abuses... New Plymouth was a New Zealand company settlement. The new Zealand company vhemently opposed the treaty and pretty well disregarded it leading to a lot of the problems that came later...
(this part from Wikipeadia)
Parihaka is located between Mount Taranaki and the Tasman Sea. In the 1870s and 1880s the settlement, then reputed to be the largest Māori village in New Zealand, became the centre of a major campaign of non-violent resistance to European occupation of confiscated land in the area.
The village was founded about 1866 by Māori chiefs Te Whiti o Rongomai and Tohu Kakahi on land seized by the government during the post-war land confiscations of the 1860s. The population of the village grew to more than 2000, attracting Māori who had been dispossessed of their land by confiscations[1] and impressing European visitors with its cleanliness and industry, and its extensive cultivations producing cash crops as well as food sufficient to feed its inhabitants.
When an influx of European settlers in Taranaki created a demand for farmland that outstripped the availability, the Grey government stepped up efforts to secure title to land it had confiscated but subsequently not taken up for settlement. From 1876 some Māori in Taranaki accepted "no fault" payments called takoha compensation, while some hapu, or sub-tribal groups, outside the confiscation zone took the Government's payments to allow surveying and settlement.[2] Māori near Parihaka and the Waimate Plains rejected the payments, however, and the government responded by drawing up plans to take the land by force.[3] In late 1878 the government began surveying the land and offering it for sale. Te Whiti and Tohu responded with a series of non-violent campaigns in which they first ploughed settlers' farmland and later erected fences across roadways to impress upon the government their right to occupy the confiscated land to which they believed they still had rights, given the government's failure to provide the reserves it had promised.[4] The campaigns sparked a series of arrests under martial law, resulting in more than 400 Māori being jailed in the South Island, where they remained without trial for as long as 16 months with the aid of a series of new repressive laws.[5]
As fears grew among white settlers that the resistance campaign was a prelude to renewed armed conflict,[6] the Hall Government began planning a military assault at Parihaka to close it down.[7] Pressured by Native Minister John Bryce, the government finally acted in late October 1881 while the sympathetic Governor was out of the country. Led by Bryce, on horseback, 1600 troops and cavalry entered the village at dawn on 5 November 1881.[8] The soldiers were greeted with hundreds of skipping and singing children offering them food. Te Whiti and Tohu were arrested and jailed for 16 months, 1600 Parihaka inhabitants were expelled and dispersed throughout Taranaki without food or shelter and the remaining 600 residents were issued with government passes to control their movement. Soldiers looted and destroyed most of the buildings at Parihaka. Land that had been promised as reserves by a commission of inquiry into land confiscations was later seized and sold to cover the cost of crushing Te Whiti's resistance, while others were leased to European settlers, shutting Māori out of involvement in the decisions over land use.
In a major 1996 report, the Waitangi Tribunal claimed the events at Parihaka provided a graphic display of government antagonism to any show of Māori political independence. It noted: "A vibrant and productive Māori community was destroyed and total State control of all matters Māori, with full power over the Māori social order, was sought."[9] Historian Hazel Riseborough also believed the central issue motivating the invasion was mana: "Europeans were concerned about their superiority and dominance which, it seemed to them, could be assured only by destroying Te Whiti's mana. As long as he remained at Parihaka he constituted a threat to European supremacy in that he offered his people an alternative to the way of life the European sought to impose on them."[10]
I'm sorry - Parihaka was a bit of a clanger dropped by the NZ state on its citizens....
Forum whore
[QUOTE=Paul in NZ;1130641523]Neither version is particularly fair..
Yes, things were messy in those days.
My comments though were aimed at the banditbandit school of thought which appears to blame the colonists of NZ for the feelings of anger, frustration and probably any failings of the Maori people.
Forum whore
[QUOTE=Zedder;1130641535]And to be fair - when it came to the NZ company there was a reason to be unhappy... They knowingly broke the law... Sadly, like many colonial govts of the era, they were not called to account... The wars were over illegally obtained land and still land was confiscated... Maori were entitled to be a bit PO'd and still chose peaceful resistance...
Forum whore
[QUOTE=Paul in NZ;1130641541]However, that was a while ago, they're being compensated, offered dedicated government support and a future. It's probably time to move on.
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