Cornering lines

[EJK]

According to this thread, all NZ road corners are 90 degrees right angle.

[Ocean1]

I've been scouring YouTube for a clip I saw some years ago involving a head-to-head between some English track bike racer (riding a track bike) versus the UK Police's head bike instructor (on an ST1300 with all the cop works on it). One rode race lines, the other road lines. The racer wasn't that much faster than the cop.

Somebody with better YouTube search skills than me may be able to find it.

To be pedantic, (I need the practice) there's a big difference between qualifying lines and race lines. The classic parabola, slightly tweaked for corner curve and camber variations is theoretically the fastest way through a corner, and a continuous interpolation of that line through the complete circuit is the go on an empty track.

Actual race lines have also to consider the competition, and that parabolic approach may get you passed under brakes on the inside, with you having to run wide under brakes. The wining line is an inside entry and an early apex, neither conducive to ultimate speed but far less likely to let the bastards past.

So the real race line differs even more from the recommended road line than that first pic might indicate. Just about the complete opposite, in fact.

[MSTRS:Me]

On the road, the undisputed winner of corner lines is the late-apex method. Safer, smoother, and what's speed got to do with road-riding anyway...
On the track, I am constantly amazed at how the tight inside line under brakes is the faster entry but almost always the slower exit. To attain and keep the lead this way relies on blocking the just-passed rider who can get on the gas much earlier.

[G4L4XY]

As long as you get your knee-down and you make it to the other side you're doing it right

[SPP]

.. I thought I would add a diagram of how I tend to ride..

I haven't had professional roadcraft training so am hardly an authority but that looks spot on to me. I'm not convinced about the rationale for the centre line position at exit but it matters little.

Track lines - Ride like Rossi
Qualifying, Defensive and Racing from 03:44

The Qualifying line is the one you're shown at trackdays since its the safest and most resembles a good road line. At CSS they make a point of not teaching you a specific line since there are many that could be used depending on situation and all are good if they follow the throttle rule.

[Katman]

On the road, the undisputed winner of corner lines is the late-apex method.

What's apexing got to do with safe road riding?

[MSTRS:Me]

What's apexing got to do with safe road riding?

Apex. N. Top. Peak. Highest point
Apexing. V. Summiting. Arriving at the highest point.

So - for the terminally stupid - if a rider is not on top of their game, they are not (being) safe. So there.


Actually, the apex in a corner is simply the point where the rider stops ENTERING the corner and begins EXITING that corner. Where that point is in the available width of lane is not an exact science, but any line that ensures the rider's body/head is inside their own lane is a good start.

[Katman]

Apex. N. Top. Peak. Highest point
Apexing. V. Summiting. Arriving at the highest point.

So - for the terminally stupid - if a rider is not on top of their game, they are not (being) safe. So there.


Actually, the apex in a corner is simply the point where the rider stops ENTERING the corner and begins EXITING that corner. Where that point is in the available width of lane is not an exact science, but any line that ensures the rider's body/head is inside their own lane is a good start.

If only that was what you meant John.

[MSTRS:Me]

If only that was what you meant John.

It is. But since you are the god of assumption, please tell us mere mortals what YOU thought I meant.

[Katman]

It is. But since you are the god of assumption, please tell us mere mortals what YOU thought I meant.

Not such a great taste having someone put words in your mouth, is it John?

[MSTRS:Me]

I'm tasting a hint of bullshit...

[Katman]

I'm tasting a hint of bullshit...

I'm sure you're used to the flavour.

[MSTRS:Me]

I'm sure you're used to the flavour.

Should be by now, but I am a bit tired of your one-dish repertoire...

[haydes55]

I see some flaws in the diagrams everyone has drawn up, so I thought I would add a diagram of how I tend to ride.

Everyone seems to want to try emulate the classic idea of a racing line, entering and exiting a corner wide.

I try exit a corner as close to the inside as possible for a few reasons, mostly because it allows me far more options incase of the unexpected and because in the majority of situations any corner is often followed by a corner turning the opposite direction so my line puts me in the correct place to enter the next corner



You'll have to excuse my lack of ability with MS paint but here is a rough representation of what I do on the road.

The yellow line represents the centreline, the green line is the line I would use turning right and the blue line is the line I would use turning left
]

Apart from the fact my bike can't just do 90 degree turns on the spot I actually have done corners that way before, tonight I really thought about those lines as I rode the back roads through karaka towards Pukekohe and it felt smooth and I didn't have to worry about drifting wide or anything on corner exit, so right from mid corner I can start scanning the next corner for hazards and ideal lines etc.


Also from earlier today riding on wet roads (with diesel spills all over the place!), I stayed in the center of the two tire tracks, the tire tracks were shiny and the center wasn't. Would you rather risk hitting debris but being clear of shiny road, or ride shiny wet road and avoid possible debris?

[george formby]

Also from earlier today riding on wet roads (with diesel spills all over the place!), I stayed in the center of the two tire tracks, the tire tracks were shiny and the center wasn't. Would you rather risk hitting debris but being clear of shiny road, or ride shiny wet road and avoid possible debris?

There in lies the rub. Your road position should be the most appropriate for identifying & avoiding hazards. Skid demons are hazards, the sooner you see one the more time you have to decide the next safest bit of road to be on to get to the next safest bit of road etc.

I'm ceaselessly amazed that even though riding in the rain feels very different to the dry, more focus on road surface and a slightly higher pucker factor whenever I check the speedo my speed is the same as it would be in the dry. Even in the rain at night.

I guess I,m constantly slow.