NZSBK Round 2 - dispute

[Billy]

Thanks Steve , for your writings , unfortunately their are many who have tried to keep the course , but have just had enough . The clubs that never really bought in to the "series" thing since I've been involved in the modern era 2007- . The years where I had to do the Sub regs and entry forms at the last minute (2011/2012) otherwise there wouldn't have been any and that was MNZ's responsibility! and I wasn't even an official as such. Then to get as much coverage for the sport online since 2008. It was me (Not CTAS) that got the Internet coverage going , I met Grant and he asked me was there anything he could do I said yes "Live Timing" I introduced him to Tim Gibbes who was a bit IFy as he had heard it all before. Within a week there was live timing , now Grant has taken to the level it is now (as my ability doesn't stretch that far) and I happerly work with him doing interviews etc. But guess what , even Grant has had his own issues with getting things done. Now why am I going on about that , to see the shit that went on over the past couple of seasons has worn me down. Then the atitude of some of the clubs "Officials" and riders just made me wonder why I even bothered doing what I did. The lack of balls that MNZ has shown not just in this case but stretching back to when officials being abused by riders and officials never backed by the board , it makes me sick. I don't like to bag anyone , but I just over the crap. I'm no key board warrior , want to know more ask me when you see me next at Taupo or Manfeild.

Bravo Ian,I don't think people realise how much you have done

[budda]

There's a set of rules and is it true that the only time they're looked at or enforced is when there's actually a protest?

NO - the last 3 times that have been raised on here have been the direct result of MNZ officials attempting to do what Competitors have been crying out for at the AGMS, i.e. APPLY our own rules

[steveyb]

I guess I am also a bit disappointed and exasperated by those (not just the current lot, but those in the past also) who know damned well that they are pushing the boundaries and that the outcome of any challenge will be a matter of interpretation (and they simply do know and understand that), and are caught, that they do not just put their hands up and say:

"Bugger, you got me. Fair cop gunvner. I pushed the boundaries and came a croppa. Hand me the penalty and we can all move on."
But no, they have all dug their toes in so that they don't lose face, or whatever they wish not to lose.

While it was a different situation entirely, a young rider in 125GP really upset everyone a couple of years ago. All sorts of things were said about the situation, his behaviour and him. But you know what?
He copped it sweet. He put his hand up, said (to paraphrase) "Yep I fucked up there didn't I, sorry about that. What do you want to do? OK, I'll cop that. Lets get on with it." And everyone came out of the situation learning something and a bit more mature for it.

Perhaps there can be a lesson learned in this case from that one?

EDIT: I re-read this and it might come across as taking a position that in this case there has been cheating. I wish to add here as an edit, which I hope will be read, that that was not my intention. I have no idea either way with regards to anyones bikes. I just wanted to make comment about sporting behaviours in general really, but using this as a vehicle to say something which I hope has a grain of constructivity (is that a word?) in it. Apologies to anyone who may have taken this to mean I was taking a side.

[Shaun Harris]

While it was a different situation entirely, a young rider in 125GP really upset everyone a couple of years ago. All sorts of things were said about the situation, his behaviour and him. But you know what?
He copped it sweet. He put his hand up, said (to paraphrase) "Yep I fucked up there didn't I, sorry about that. What do you want to do? OK, I'll cop that. Lets get on with it." And everyone came out of the situation learning something and a bit more mature for it.

Perhaps there can be a lesson learned in this case from that one?

Good on the young rider for taking it on the chin like a man. I would love the current issue to end by a certain ADULT acting like one and doing the same thing. I can understand how hard it would be for him to do now since his comments and post are very well documented of denial of it all, but in my mind he would be a bigger man to admit and stop all the time and money waste that is going on due to his own actions.

Some times it only takes one thing to rot the apple cart, and this one has really polutted it big time!

So what you admit to cheating ( Not good nor very sporting but neither is it nasty or vicious, just over competiveness) You will actually gain respect for being man enough to hold your hand up high. We all know you have been involved in racing for a long time and obviously love the sport, swallow your false sense of pride dude and let the ship leave the harbour. It would also be paying back a certain young man ( who has his name tainted now due to the modern internet) that trusted you with his life really and would be seen as an appology to all the officuals that have had to spend countless FREE HOURS of WORK trying to sought this mess out.

Show us all how much of a real man you are buddy and PLEASE STAND UP PLEASE STAND UP

[Shaun Harris]

Thanks Steve , for your writings , unfortunately their are many who have tried to keep the course , but have just had enough . The clubs that never really bought in to the "series" thing since I've been involved in the modern era 2007- . The years where I had to do the Sub regs and entry forms at the last minute (2011/2012) otherwise there wouldn't have been any and that was MNZ's responsibility! and I wasn't even an official as such. Then to get as much coverage for the sport online since 2008. It was me (Not CTAS) that got the Internet coverage going , I met Grant and he asked me was there anything he could do I said yes "Live Timing" I introduced him to Tim Gibbes who was a bit IFy as he had heard it all before. Within a week there was live timing , now Grant has taken to the level it is now (as my ability doesn't stretch that far) and I happerly work with him doing interviews etc. But guess what , even Grant has had his own issues with getting things done. Now why am I going on about that , to see the shit that went on over the past couple of seasons has worn me down. Then the atitude of some of the clubs "Officials" and riders just made me wonder why I even bothered doing what I did. The lack of balls that MNZ has shown not just in this case but stretching back to when officials being abused by riders and officials never backed by the board , it makes me sick. I don't like to bag anyone , but I just over the crap. I'm no key board warrior , want to know more ask me when you see me next at Taupo or Manfeild.

Ian, I for one owe you an apology for many moons ago and ranting at you, I know you will remember. I have no reasons nor justified exscuses for those actions of mine at all. Hope you accept my appologies for that Mate, and thankyou for all the hard work you do behind the scene also.

[scrivy]

I'm picking there are some on here that are going to end up getting a room together very soon......


Kiwibiker - feeling the love.....

[oyster]

Very good point discussed steve, and right on topic with this thread. I had to explain to people who are pissed off with a seeming bad decision, that steward and coc are like cricket umpires. When that finget goes up, accept it. A photo next day showing the ball missed the bat will not see a trophy changing hands. Accept the referees call, whether he's right or wrong. It's only a problem if there's obvious bias or discrimination. Jaden hassen crashed early in the tt years ago. It was later stopped. Full race restart, but he was barred. Wrong call, but it's over. Dan mettam, crashed and continued in the SAME race, albeit 2 halves. Barred. Wrong call. Then bad behaviour was the issue. Sorry, but steward still the boss!

[scott411]

Very good point discussed steve, and right on topic with this thread. I had to explain to people who are pissed off with a seeming bad decision, that steward and coc are like cricket umpires. When that finget goes up, accept it. A photo next day showing the ball missed the bat will not see a trophy changing hands. Accept the referees call, whether he's right or wrong. It's only a problem if there's obvious bias or discrimination. Jaden hassen crashed early in the tt years ago. It was later stopped. Full race restart, but he was barred. Wrong call, but it's over. Dan mettam, crashed and continued in the SAME race, albeit 2 halves. Barred. Wrong call. Then bad behaviour was the issue. Sorry, but steward still the boss!

This is the best thing i have read on this issue, and I had the president up on the same issue,

We allow far to much of the officals word to be over ruled, this latest appeal is just the latest one, I think the Supercross rules where their is a referee, is the model to be used, they make the call, and it is enforced, if they make bad calls you get another referee,

[Shaun Harris]

This is the best thing i have read on this issue, and I had the president up on the same issue,

We allow far to much of the officals word to be over ruled, this latest appeal is just the latest one, I think the Supercross rules where their is a referee, is the model to be used, they make the call, and it is enforced, if they make bad calls you get another referee,

Scott, is there a link you could post to show the exact wording of how this procedure operates

[Shaun Harris]

I'm picking there are some on here that are going to end up getting a room together very soon......


Kiwibiker - feeling the love.....

I tried to get a room for us but he likes his sand pit too much and I am starting to think he does not love me anymore. Man that is hard to deal with but at least I have my meds to help me through this difficult period of rejection.

[budda]

scott, is there a link you could post to show the exact wording of how this procedure operates

mnz rulebook shaun

[Shaun Harris]

mnz rulebook shaun

Thanks bucko, I hate reading through that thing on the net big time haha, yep, Im a lazy bugger

[Shaun Harris]

This is the best thing i have read on this issue, and I had the president up on the same issue,

We allow far to much of the officals word to be over ruled, this latest appeal is just the latest one, I think the Supercross rules where their is a referee, is the model to be used, they make the call, and it is enforced, if they make bad calls you get another referee,

I am asuming you are refering to rule 29.32------------29.32.11 Re the refere

Whilst I see very healthy benefits to having a referee, I must be missing something regarding how the supercross rules/ueage of a referee could have or could help in this case or these situations. As I read the description of the referee in rules listed above from MNZ web site, the ref basically keeps the meeting ONLY running smooth? They have nothing to do with protests/appeals etc.

Or is it that perhaps some letters were not dotted or crossed, and that is where the referee would be doing there job in this or other cases like it in the future?

[scott411]

I am asuming you are refering to rule 29.32------------29.32.11 Re the refere

yes, basically the referee takes care of racing side of things, not the CoC or the steward,

[RobGassit]

A clause in the sub regs giving final discretion to the COC or Head Steward who's decision would be final and not able to be appealed. At least then, the line in the sand is drawn. Volunteers may be hard to find.