Motorcycle safety campaign. Yeah right.

[rastuscat]

I am glad to see you joining this discussion.
So what is the definition of a campaign? The lowering of the discretionary speed limit tolerance over the summer period was recognisable as a campaign, lots of publicity and attention and some kind of measurable outcome. (whether you agree with the validity of the measure or not, is not the question here)

Is this "campaign" confined to a particular policing area? Why? Why has there not been the same publicity around the campaign as say the speed limit tolerance? What is the aim? What objectives have been set so that the aim is reached? How is that measured? How will the public be made aware of this? If education is intended why do people have to be pulled over to do so? Have any other options been considered?

Just want to make a couple of things clear. I ride a class of bike permissible with my class of licence and I wear ATGATT so am not feeling threatened! I realise you are not the person who sets policy but you are uniquely placed to give us an insight as to how such policy is decided and implemented. I am not interested in flaming the police. I just want to understand how these things work.

Popos around the country are rolling their collective eyes at the disproportionate rate of biker deaths, and wondering what to do about it.

Various districts come up with different responses. And some don't do much at all. That makes the others stand out.

I'm sure that a national response will be formulated.

Traditionally the response to motorcycle deaths is to hammer the shit out of bikers. This has led to an antagonistic relationship between Police and some bikers.

Some bikers never run foul of Police, some do frequently.

I had a look at a different response in the last couple of years, trying to engage with motorcyclists, have them take ownership of the issues, and to promote solutions that bikers can implement themselves.

The response has been underwhelming. I had one bloke recently do one of the training courses in order to get off a ticket he had received. 2 weeks later I get a complaint about a guy using a cycle lave as a passing lane, and it turns out to be the same bloke.

Education is sometimes the answer, but some days enforcement feels like the necessary response. Fecking frustrating when riders put themselves in dangerous situations.

And nobody...........NOBODY..........has tempted me with donuts in the last 2 years.

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE !!!!!!!!

[Akzle]

No. But if we started enforcing intelligence the roads would be a lot less frequented down your way.....

up* my way. My roads are infrequented. Thats why i like them.

[jasonu]

Sometimes being really careful at what you're doing is enough to make up for deficiencies in safety gear.

Until some dickwad unexpectedly pulls out of a driveway and totally flattens you.

[Akzle]

Popos around the country are rolling their collective eyes at the disproportionate rate of biker deaths, and wondering what to do about it.

had a look at a different response in the last couple of years, trying to engage with motorcyclists, have them take ownership of the issues, and to promote solutions that bikers can implement themselves.

NOBODY..........has tempted me with donuts in the last 2 years.

i would never offer you donuts.
Infact, when we meet, likely the first thing i say will be 'piss off'
who pinned the badge on your sash, whereby you feel the need to save people from themselves??

You cant legislate against accidents (stupidity or not) and you cant legislate against intent, meaning basically everything you do serves no purpose.

So fuck off already.
It isnt that we have been antagonised by you enforcing roading policy, but rather the entire lack of stopping any kind of actual crime.(im also firmly of the belief that police haven't stopped one road fatality yet)

[Ulsterkiwi]

Popos around the country are rolling their collective eyes at the disproportionate rate of biker deaths, and wondering what to do about it.

Various districts come up with different responses. And some don't do much at all. That makes the others stand out.

I'm sure that a national response will be formulated.

Traditionally the response to motorcycle deaths is to hammer the shit out of bikers. This has led to an antagonistic relationship between Police and some bikers.

Some bikers never run foul of Police, some do frequently.

I had a look at a different response in the last couple of years, trying to engage with motorcyclists, have them take ownership of the issues, and to promote solutions that bikers can implement themselves.

The response has been underwhelming. I had one bloke recently do one of the training courses in order to get off a ticket he had received. 2 weeks later I get a complaint about a guy using a cycle lave as a passing lane, and it turns out to be the same bloke.

Education is sometimes the answer, but some days enforcement feels like the necessary response. Fecking frustrating when riders put themselves in dangerous situations.

And nobody...........NOBODY..........has tempted me with donuts in the last 2 years.

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE !!!!!!!!

I guess in part this is a case of damned if you do and screwed in the ass if you dont. I do understand that its a difficult one for the police and any solution requires every road user to take responsibility for their part. Note I said EVERY road user, not just those on bikes. Its a real pity that the press attention recently has been bike bashing with little by way of balancing the story and explaining to other road users they need to change things as well and how.

I admire your confidence in a national plan being formulated, I think my questions reflect what appears to be a distinct lack of and the need for a completely fresh look at a national overall strategy for improving road safety. This should encapsulate every group of road users not target those in the headlines at this time. Surely we aren't advocating populist policing?

An interesting conversation with my wife (who is naturally biker aware and sympathetic) on the one hand she was commenting on the knobs with a deathwish who lane split at 80kmh going downhill on the Ngauranga Gorge part of SH1, "both sides at the same time like some kind of two wheeled tag team" as she put it and when she heard about the "campaign" described by the OP she commented it was "daft to piss everyone off". Two very different perspectives and thats just one person.

So what about engagement? Last weekend Southwards Museum in Pram had a big open day. hundreds and hundreds of people there. I wasn't at it but drove past a few times, I didnt see a police community relations or highway patrol unit out connecting with what are clearly road users. No handing out of leaflets or presence to take advantage of the gathering.
Instead what I experienced was manovreing and road skills from a number of car drivers that would make my two cats look like Senna and Prost. Thats just to be expected what really pissed me off was two idiots who tried to pull out in front of me in the middle of Pram while experiencing sustained loss of traction and fishtailing their way along the Kapiti Road. Neither wearing seat belts and the second guy had a child in a car child seat in the front of the vehicle with him and what looked like the rest of the family in the back! Where was popo then? (Rhetorical question, I know you can't answer that one)

I understand, knobs will be knobs but they will be regardless of what you do. I think getting people onboard is more effective if they dont perceive themselves to be targeted. I have no issue with the police and would usually pass the attitude test cos I think your job is hard enough without me being a prick, but flashing lights and being pulled over at the side of the road to be given a lecture because I happen to be there would rapidly change that.

[Katman]

Until some dickwad unexpectedly pulls out of a driveway and totally flattens you.

If you ride around with your eyes shut you deserve to be flattened.

[FJRider]

Great, ANOTHER thread for/by whinging paranoid biker types, as if we need another one of those threads....

It strikes me as odd that a few object to answering the questions for the survey. If ACC asked for the survey to be made (in conjunction with LTSA) and will be notified with the results of said survey ... maybe .. it is in our own interests to answer the questions. If our bikes/license are in order .. the only thing we lose is 15 (??) minutes of our time. The results may indicate ... that the legally licensed motorcyclists are not the bane of ACC ..!!

A large portion of "Motorcycle" accidents are NOT on the open road ... BUT ... the licensed Motorcyclists are made to carry the kitty by the Levies imposed in Registration costs.

Maybe ... if we made/showed we were making the effort to be safe ... with the Police asking the questions ... a favorable result ... should result. If WE are all doing it right ... of course.

Perhaps ... the whinging paranoid biker types .... aren't ...

And ... I find it difficult to believe that being asked such questions in a survey by Police ... during a legal stop ... is infringing on ANY human rights issues.

I am curious though ... as to who instigated the "Safety Survey" in the first instance anyway ..

And .. as a side note .. I don't know of anybody in (or near) Paradise being asked to do the survey during a "Stop" by Police. No such reports by any (I've heard of) in the South Island either ...

[Berg]

Personally I haven't seen or heard anything about this here in Wgtn but what I did notice while traveling round the Waikato was the abundance of signs targeted at bikers. You know, the road is not a racetrack, don't get in drivers blind spots yadda yadda yadda. What I DIDN'T see were the signs saying "oi, drivers, take a second bloody look for bikes" etc.
It would seem we bikers are going to be under a bit of pressure for a while especially in the "killing zone" also known as Waikato especially after the last months mishaps which cost a few lives and injured several others.
I spoke with several riders while on my 20 day working trip none of which received a ticket or lecture from me. Most were actually bloody pleasant and just happy to have a yack and also happy to find some of us cops also ride bikes and also get frustrated with the way bikers are often picked on.
As for the gear survey, shit, if they want to ask sensible questions I have no problem with that at all. OK, even I get a bit annoyed when somebody who knows nothing about what they are policing asks dumb questions but I also temper that with the knowlage that making that roadside interaction can and often does find stolen bikes (and we here all loath scum sucking bike stealers) and also often finds unlicenced riders who very frequently cost us in ACC statistics which effect us all.
Just my one cent

[Ulsterkiwi]

I would be happy to answer questions, its how they are asked! If there is a publicised campaign aiming to reduce the toll on the roads then no problem. The way the OP described things does not strike me as the ideal way to do it. If you want to fix things then the most effective way is to get everyone on board. What was described doesnt seem to me to be the best way to do that.

Perhaps get the motorcycle cops involved, establish common ground or at least get officers who know what they are talking about to do the asking. Involve groups like Ulysses and BRONZ and local clubs. Go to community events. Its not going to generate revenue and will take longer but I do think it would be more effective.

[FJRider]

Traditionally the response to motorcycle deaths is to hammer the shit out of bikers. This has led to an antagonistic relationship between Police and some bikers.

It's a love/hate relationship ... motorcyclists love to hate Police. Don't take it personally ...

Some bikers never run foul of Police, some do frequently.

I had a look at a different response in the last couple of years, trying to engage with motorcyclists, have them take ownership of the issues, and to promote solutions that bikers can implement themselves.

The response has been underwhelming. I had one bloke recently do one of the training courses in order to get off a ticket he had received. 2 weeks later I get a complaint about a guy using a cycle lave as a passing lane, and it turns out to be the same bloke.

If a Motorcycle safety course is cheaper than the "Ticket" ... your IQ level needs not be that high to make the choice. $$$$ in our pockets are a major influence in such decision making ... and such safety courses don't encourage total compliance in Land Traffic Act compliance. To assume they would is comical ...

Education is sometimes the answer, but some days enforcement feels like the necessary response. Fecking frustrating when riders put themselves in dangerous situations.

It won't happen to ME ... And I've done it heaps of times with no problems ... I'm a good rider ...

End of the day ... We know the rules. You know ... and DO your job. I get the impression that you are more than fair in your responses during a stop. Like it or not by some ... that is all we expect. On some stops I have received both better and worse results.

Such is life ...

And nobody...........NOBODY..........has tempted me with donuts in the last 2 years.

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE !!!!!!!!

Move down to Paradise .... we have Donuts ...

[Kickaha]

And nobody...........NOBODY..........has tempted me with donuts in the last 2 years.

WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE !!!!!!!!

You know where I live, call around some time and I will go buy you some

A large portion of "Motorcycle" accidents are NOT on the open road ... BUT ... the licensed Motorcyclists are made to carry the kitty by the Levies imposed in Registration costs.

Are you sure about that?, It's a line often trotted out but I didn't think anyone had been able to show that was the case

[FJRider]

Are you sure about that?, It's a line often trotted out but I didn't think anyone had been able to show that was the case

I lived with a Lady that worked for ACC .. she showed me THEIR stats on "Motorcycle" accidents ...

Four wheelers, Trail bikes, trials, Motocross (lots getting hurt there) ... ALL off the highways ... ALL count as Motorcycle injury's. ALL UNREGISTERED. And require NO registration. Even accidents on the Highway that INVOLVE motorcycles are seen as motorcycle accidents. REGARDLESS of fault at the time.

ACC is no fault accident compensation ... but feel free to demand money from only a portion of the accused. Which is actually only where they CAN demand it from ..

How you get injured is not important to get compensation .. but being motorcyclists .. we are seen as a bigger risk ... so we pay more, does that seem fair to you .. ??

[Katman]

I lived with a Lady that worked for ACC .. she showed me THEIR stats on "Motorcycle" accidents ...

Four wheelers, Trail bikes, trials, Motocross (lots getting hurt there) ... ALL off the highways ... ALL count as Motorcycle injury's. ALL UNREGISTERED. And require NO registration.

Are they the same statistics that the police and NZTA use?

[swbarnett]

... any solution requires every road user to take responsibility for their part.

The ONLY solution that has any chance of working is for you to take care of yourself and stop worrying about the fact that a small proportion of the driving public don't do things in a way that you consider "safe". Afterall, the majority of motorcycle accidents don't involve any other vehicles. How is educating "other" drivers going to help that?

[Akzle]

The ONLY solution that has any chance of working is for you to take care of yourself and stop worrying about the fact that a small proportion of the driving public don't do things in a way that you consider "safe". Afterall, the majority of motorcycle accidents don't involve any other vehicles. How is educating "other" drivers going to help that?

youre right of course. Motorcycling is obviously far too dangerous for anyone. It should be illegal.