Schools and family expectations

**awa355** · 12th March 2014, 19:46

I agree with much that is said in this article. Sadly, I see this atitude with my own grandsons parents.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=11217883

**mashman** · 12th March 2014, 20:51

Originally Posted by awa355

I agree with much that is said in this article. Sadly, I see this atitude with my own grandsons parents.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/ne...ectid=11217883

They get it from their parents. Oh, hang on...............

**ellipsis** · 12th March 2014, 21:04

...i got varicose veins from my old man...although my mum had them to, but she couldn't genetically pass them on...

**SMOKEU** · 12th March 2014, 21:07

Another reason why I plan to never breed.

In saying that, little Smokeys running around will be quite beneficial for society.

**neels** · 12th March 2014, 21:42

Absolutely true, we know a few of them, thinking seems to be that the kids have to be off to half a dozen different activities and extra tutoring every week otherwise they won't achieve.

Our kids walked to the local primary school rather than be driven across town every morning to a 'better' school, went to the high schools that were on the bus route past our house, did stuff after school or in the weekends if they wanted to and stopped if they lost interest. The older 2 managed to achieve enough to get into university, so our lack of parental enthusiasm for their future can't have hurt them too much.

Makes you wonder what's at the other end when these overstimulated kids end up in the daily grind of the real world.

**Berries** · 12th March 2014, 23:05

Originally Posted by neels

Our kids walked to the local primary school rather than be driven across town every morning to a 'better' school, went to the high schools that were on the bus route past our house, did stuff after school or in the weekends if they wanted to and stopped if they lost interest. The older 2 managed to achieve enough to get into university, so our lack of parental enthusiasm for their future can't have hurt them too much.

Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.

The fact that you mention university as a measure of success puts you alongside those "uber parents" the story is dissing doesn't it?

**Grumph** · 13th March 2014, 05:03

Originally Posted by neels

Absolutely true, we know a few of them, thinking seems to be that the kids have to be off to half a dozen different activities and extra tutoring every week otherwise they won't achieve.

Our kids walked to the local primary school rather than be driven across town every morning to a 'better' school, went to the high schools that were on the bus route past our house, did stuff after school or in the weekends if they wanted to and stopped if they lost interest. The older 2 managed to achieve enough to get into university, so our lack of parental enthusiasm for their future can't have hurt them too much.

Makes you wonder what's at the other end when these overstimulated kids end up in the daily grind of the real world.

Yep, the normal - or old school - way of doing it. Sadly it would appear to be out of fashion now.

personally, I reckon the right attitude is to prepare for slight surprise if university is achieved....

**MisterD** · 13th March 2014, 06:30

Originally Posted by Berries

Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.

Exactly. I think that parents are intuitively (let's steal that word) understanding that education system is continually being dumbed down and are trying, in the only way they can, to work against that trend.

My kids will go to Uni to do a proper degree (a real science or something) or they won't go at all.

**neels** · 13th March 2014, 07:44

Originally Posted by Berries

Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.

The fact that you mention university as a measure of success puts you alongside those "uber parents" the story is dissing doesn't it?

Originally Posted by MisterD

My kids will go to Uni to do a proper degree (a real science or something) or they won't go at all.

To be fair I did think that when I wrote it, and it's true that universities will happily take your money so you can get a student loan and an arts degree that qualifies you to ask people if they want fries with that.

Fortunately my kids are aiming a bit higher than that, otherwise I would have been steering them in another direction too.

**mashman** · 13th March 2014, 08:08

Originally Posted by neels

Fortunately my kids are aiming a bit higher than that, otherwise I would have been steering them in another direction too.

With knuckle dusters and a baseball bat? What about what they want to do?

**Banditbandit** · 13th March 2014, 08:26

Originally Posted by Berries

Yeah but come on, my Jack Russell could get in to uni these days.

Yes. Unfortunately that's true .. the Government decreed a long time ago that as long as you were 20 years old you could enrol in university. (Is your jack Russell 20 years old?) There's nothing those of us working in tertiary education can do about that, except restrict the programmes they can enrol in by insisting on good high school grades in sciences for science courses etc ...

But if you are 20 you can enrol in tertiary education ... nothing else needed

Originally Posted by MisterD

Exactly. I think that parents are intuitively (let's steal that word) understanding that education system is continually being dumbed down and are trying, in the only way they can, to work against that trend.

My kids will go to Uni to do a proper degree (a real science or something) or they won't go at all.

I do not believe that the tertiary sector is being "dumbed down" - yes we have to accept people onto SOME degree programmes (like BAs) who probably would not meet any academic requirement, but they get in because they are 20+ years old ... BUT we do not have to pass them .. and I've failed quite a few in my time ...

And Science? A proper degree? A proper subject? Jeez - that demonstrates a massive misunderstanding of the nature of knowledge.

Ernst Mach said that to be a great scientist (and he was) required "intuition and a high level of conceptual skills". Einstein (and he was also a great scientist) said much the same thing ...

Do you think they will develop those skills counting fruit flies in test tubes? (Yes, I did start my university studies in Science)

Originally Posted by neels

To be fair I did think that when I wrote it, and it's true that universities will happily take your money so you can get a student loan and an arts degree that qualifies you to ask people if they want fries with that.

Fortunately my kids are aiming a bit higher than that, otherwise I would have been steering them in another direction too.

As above .... and we do not have to pass the drop kicks ...

(comment to everyone .. I get what you say here about your own children. ) Do not force your children into a path that they might regret later in life

**Tigadee** · 13th March 2014, 08:33

Originally Posted by neels

Absolutely true, we know a few of them, thinking seems to be that the kids have to be off to half a dozen different activities and extra tutoring every week otherwise they won't achieve.

Our kids walked to the local primary school rather than be driven across town every morning to a 'better' school, went to the high schools that were on the bus route past our house, did stuff after school or in the weekends if they wanted to and stopped if they lost interest.

Good Lord, I have enough trouble coping with the kids' school homework already without thinking (like a stereotypical Asian parent) about violin/piano, ballet and extra math lessons!

Can't believe they get homework everyday (and the amount)! And not just stuff that gets done in half an hour - my eldest had to write a minimum 350-word report in one night and spent 3-4 hours after dinner researching, collating, writing, editing and proofreading!

By midnight, she asked me if I could read through it for her, and I had to say "Sorry no" because I'd already had a extra-long hard day at work and was knackered! (I'd planned for an early night but that got canned because I felt I should be there in case she needed any help.) She ended up with a 1,000+ word report...

I insisted my kids walk to school, even though their mother - softie that she is - worried about rain and scorching sun...

I said cry me a river cause my eyes are dry. The klds already had a pretty sedentary lifestyle, so the 30 mins walk to school will do them good...

**oldrider** · 13th March 2014, 08:35

Where ever you be let your kids go free .... but teach them to be accountable and responsible for their actions, both positive and negative.

**Mike.Gayner** · 13th March 2014, 08:39

Originally Posted by Banditbandit

Yes. Unfortunately that's true .. the Government decreed a long time ago that as long as you were 20 years old you could enrol in university. (Is your jack Russell 20 years old?) There's nothing those of us working in tertiary education can do about that, except restrict the programmes they can enrol in by insisting on good high school grades in sciences for science courses etc ...

But if you are 20 you can enrol in tertiary education ... nothing else needed

The attitude that you're taking suggests that you believe we've reached the pinnacle of our ability after college, and if you didn't achieve well in college you're undeserving of higher education. That reeks of elitism and thankfully the evidence for higher education is so strong that recent governments haven't listened to obnoxious fuckwits like you.

My brother and myself hated college - he left after fifth form and I left after sixth. Both of us bummed around doing various things for a few years, and both of us ended up deciding to go to uni in our 20s. My brother initially studied physics and astronomy, before moving to a computer science degree and achieving outstanding marks. I studied law before moving away from that and settled on accountancy and business. Now my brother is a software developer for a major company and I'm an accountant-turned-finance manager. Not bad roles for a couple of blokes in their late 20's.

Neither of us had any real entry credentials - my brother had to study some college-level maths before being allowed into the physics programme. Thank fuck people like you don't get to horde higher education for themselves.

Oh, and more to the point of this thread, I agree entirely with the general sentiment. Our parents were fairly hands-off, which worked out well for us (though it looked a bit shaky in our late-teens). I will be letting my kids find their own way, but I will likely guide them towards trades because that's where the good, honest , well-paying work will be in the future.

**oldrider** · 13th March 2014, 09:23

Originally Posted by Mike.Gayner

The attitude that you're taking suggests that you believe we've reached the pinnacle of our ability after college, and if you didn't achieve well in college you're undeserving of higher education. That reeks of elitism and thankfully the evidence for higher education is so strong that recent governments haven't listened to obnoxious fuckwits like you.

My brother and myself hated college - he left after fifth form and I left after sixth. Both of us bummed around doing various things for a few years, and both of us ended up deciding to go to uni in our 20s. My brother initially studied physics and astronomy, before moving to a computer science degree and achieving outstanding marks. I studied law before moving away from that and settled on accountancy and business. Now my brother is a software developer for a major company and I'm an accountant-turned-finance manager. Not bad roles for a couple of blokes in their late 20's.

Neither of us had any real entry credentials - my brother had to study some college-level maths before being allowed into the physics programme. Thank fuck people like you don't get to horde higher education for themselves.

Oh, and more to the point of this thread, I agree entirely with the general sentiment. Our parents were fairly hands-off, which worked out well for us (though it looked a bit shaky in our late-teens). I will be letting my kids find their own way, but I will likely guide them towards trades because that's where the good, honest , well-paying work will be in the future.

Your post is fair enough but I think you may have misread or misinterpreted Banditbandit somehow!