The firearm thread

[jono035]

In the upcoming calving season, my son will likely have the occasional calf to put down. He doesnt have a firearms licence but is going to enter the process. He wants to be able to put a calf down quickly and humanely. I passed in my licence several years ago.

He will look for a .22 rifle, but I wondered if a high powered air rifle would suffice. Or do the top end air rifles also require a licence?

That's a good goal to have. Any air rifle suitable for this process would likely require a firearms licence anyway.

The firearms licence process is really quite simple. Get the form and fill it out with personal details and a couple of references. I used my girlfriend and flatmate, but just ask the Police for suggestions if you don't have anyone to mind. Take the form back to them and book in for the 'Mountain Safety Course' which is really just a 'don't look down the barrel and don't point it at your mates' kind of course. Read through the arms code and memorize the 7 rules that are in there. The course is a couple of hours and then a pretty basic multi-choice questionnaire at the end. The police will then schedule a time to interview your references and check your firearms storage.

For storage, I've seen people using all sorts. The tried and true method is the standard wall mount rack. Make sure you use 4 long wood screws that go firmly into a stud and the nogs if on a timber wall. For bonus points, drill out the heads a little so you can't just unscrew them again (can easily be unscrewed by hammering a square head bit into the divot left behind). If on a concrete wall, just use a couple of smallish dynabolts. The best place is inside something like a cupboard or hidden away a bit. Mine has always just been on the wall (once on timber, once on cinder block) in my attached garage with a sheet over it. You'll get brownie points if this is in an area of the house with an alarm and if you can hide the rack behind something. If in doubt, the police are pretty helpful with regards to where is acceptable or preferred.

My sister is a vet who has routinely put down cows with .22s, but the comment she said is 'you've really got to know where to aim'. I assume it's a lot easier with a calf, though. The other thing is being aware that you can't really use the sights properly if you're closer than a couple of meters, you've got to aim high enough to adjust for how high the 'line' of the sights are compared to the line of the bore. Normally this is only about 20-30mm...

If he's not likely to be that interested in shooting then a cheap second hand bolt action with a stainless barrel would be the way to go, something like a Savage or Stirling. Failing that, the Norinco bolt action .22s are reasonable, but I'd imagine they might need a little bit more care with regards to going rusty.

[leathel]

Putting down calves with a pistol would be bloody handy.... if it was legal to carry pistols for more than target shooting... be handy for pigs as well, compact on a side holster for when required, not long and cumbersome like a rifle.... but I doubt that will ever be legal in NZ

but yes a little .22 will do the job nicely for putting down calves, open sites is what I would use, easy for close and no scope to knock around

[nseagoon]

Do you think it needs to free-float for the type of useful range you're going to get out of a subsonic projectile? With a 25m zero you're going to need 300mm of hold-over for a 100m target anyway... Also an 8" barrel is going to be pretty bloody stiff, even with a big can hanging on the end. On the plus side, it looks like .45ACP ball would only drop ~100fps and about 15% of its energy over that range which is pretty reasonable.

it's going to be easier to free float I think. the hand guard will have to be cut out or a custom one made, if there's no wood then it doesn't have to be bedded either. in saying that judging by the quality of the rifle I have I believe it was sporterised using an angle grinder I'm sure I can't do any worse to it by trying to fit a hand guard. I'll try attach it using the front screw for the magwell. that's the forward most point I'll have available.

[nseagoon]

further to the last comments about getting your licence, storage and shooting calves. The process as stated is straight forward and simple to pass as long as you have browsed the arms code booklet and know the 7 basic safety rules.

for storage other options some arms officers approve are, a chain around rafters in the roof space, another is a chain around the hot water cylinder. in both instances the chain goes through the trigger guards, pulled tight, then padlocked.
the advantages of these areas is they are usually the driest places in the house and you don't have to worry about rot or rust as much.
If installing a safe into concrete I'd actually suggest self tapping concrete screws/ anka screws. you just drill a hole in the concrete and then pop the bolt through the safe into the hole and tighten with a spanner (firmly, don't overtighten). there's no lasting damage to concrete, just the hole. they are very strong and in some ways stronger than chemset or dynabolts if mounted properly.
when it comes time to move you just pop the bolts out with a spanner, no grinding to do and no bits of steel sticking out of the ground, they are great for mounting on the corner of a concrete pad as they dont push out and risk cracking.
if buying a safe check with local arms officer first. some don't approve cabinets or certain thin steel safes. I'd also suggest if money allows buying a bigger safe than you think is required. once you start getting multiple rifles and shotguns they fill up fast and as a general rule the number of guns the safe is designed to hold is usually half of what the manufacturer says (10 gun safe = 5 gun safe once you start adding scopes, sights, slings etc)

for a rifle a .22 will do the trick. some people use more powerful calibres but I'd advise against that as more power doesn't greaten the chance of killing the animal, only shooting the right spot will. also a larger calibre is louder which can unnerve other animals and is bad for hearing. they also have higher penetration power which increases the risk of the bullet ricocheting and hitting a person or another animal. if shooting less than 15m/point blank then use open sights, not a scope so no there's no parallax error. some guys either drawer or imagine a cross on the forehead from horn to opposite eye, where the two lines cross that's where to aim (some do it with a hammer if animal is docile enough)
and as stated any .22 will do the trick and being on a farm in the mud and rain the stainless suggestion is a very good idea but that's no excuse to not clean it after every use :-)

[nseagoon]

Putting down calves with a pistol would be bloody handy.... if it was legal to carry pistols for more than target shooting... be handy for pigs as well, compact on a side holster for when required, not long and cumbersome like a rifle.... but I doubt that will ever be legal in NZ

but yes a little .22 will do the job nicely for putting down calves, open sites is what I would use, easy for close and no scope to knock around

I believe you can use a handgun for hunting in Australia. The only gun law they have that is better than ours and makes sense.

[sAsLEX]

A hammer to the head works on small livestock.

A good swing as there should be as much energy as a bullet, just feed it some milk and whammo.

[awa355]

Thanks for the answers. Turns out, he is going to start the licence process next week. Wish he'd told me before I posted this query.

[jono035]

Thanks for the answers. Turns out, he is going to start the licence process next week. Wish he'd told me before I posted this query.

No worries, maybe it'll prove to be useful information for someone else in the future

Glad to hear he decided to get his licence.

[nseagoon]

That'd be really handy, thanks! I was just looking around yesterday for bits and pieces to make up something similar.

Pretty sure mines a Mk3 as well, but beyond that I'm kinda clueless on them. I've been soaking it in WD40 periodically for a few years now with the idea that at some point I'm going to want to yank the barrel out of it...

I'll grab it out of the safe and see how my next mag insert revision works out...

you should be able to see what model it is on the band that the front of the butt stock sits in. the bolt knob covers it when closed. mine has a crown, G.R.I 1944 then no.1 Mk.III written below it. if it's not there it's probably made in a different factory and etched somewhere else on the action or it's worn off.

This shows the tool I have and how it fits on the action where the barrel screws in


here's the end of the barrel blank. I've finally had a chance to take it out and measure it. it's 74cm or a smidgen over 29 inches. the surface is an unusual reddy colour (a coating, obviously not rust) but it's made from 416 stainless


the diameter for the 303 barrel is about 3cm where it widens from the threads and the 45 blank is just over 3cm diameter and it should be able to be turned right down to save a ton of weight.

[jono035]

you should be able to see what model it is on the band that the front of the butt stock sits in. the bolt knob covers it when closed. mine has a crown, G.R.I 1944 then no.1 Mk.III written below it. if it's not there it's probably made in a different factory and etched somewhere else on the action or it's worn off.

This shows the tool I have and how it fits on the action where the barrel screws in


here's the end of the barrel blank. I've finally had a chance to take it out and measure it. it's 74cm or a smidgen over 29 inches. the surface is an unusual reddy colour (a coating, obviously not rust) but it's made from 416 stainless


the diameter for the 303 barrel is about 3cm where it widens from the threads and the 45 blank is just over 3cm diameter and it should be able to be turned right down to save a ton of weight.

Looks good to me!

I'm still contemplating taking a shot at chambering it myself by hand. You really don't have to remove much metal for a straight walled cartridge and reamers are reasonably cheap. Turning down the barrel is probably the main thing I'd be worried about, as the lathe I've got access to doesn't have a follow steady. I figure for a 10" barrel and the type of cuts I'd be making by hand, it could just be mounted with the muzzle shoved into a live center and then crowned after profiling...

Either way, could be a fun project I'm thinking 11"-12" in order to keep it above legal minimum without the can on would be the least hassle... I can always cross-drill ports if the length proves to be an issue from a load workup point of view, but it should result in lower muzzle pressure anyway.

The density of 316 is 8g/cc so a 30mm diameter barrel with an 11.5mm hole down the middle weighs about 500g for every 100mm of length... That means the entire blank should weigh about 3.5kg? A 300mm barrel would weigh 1.5kg without profiling... Jeez, yeah, there's a bit of weight to be shaved off there...

[Mr Merde]

Looks good to me!



The density of 316 is 8g/cc so a 30mm diameter barrel with an 11.5mm hole down the middle weighs about 500g for every 100mm of length... That means the entire blank should weigh about 3.5kg? A 300mm barrel would weigh 1.5kg without profiling... Jeez, yeah, there's a bit of weight to be shaved off there...

Jono , what about making the barrel out of a lighter material and running a liner down the barrel.

[jono035]

That'd normally be an option but in this case I'm hoping to snag a piece of the offcut for nseagoon's barrel. I figure that worst case I can just mount it as is, test for accuracy and then turn the barrel down to see if it changes. My goal is really just a cool possuming gun, so accuracy of an inch at 25m would be plenty.

[nseagoon]

That'd normally be an option but in this case I'm hoping to snag a piece of the offcut for nseagoon's barrel. I figure that worst case I can just mount it as is, test for accuracy and then turn the barrel down to see if it changes. My goal is really just a cool possuming gun, so accuracy of an inch at 25m would be plenty.

I can't garantee the chance of success but if I have any barrel left over I can get the machinists at work to have a go at profiling.
They do aircraft quality parts so I'm assuming it would work as they have to operate to a thou tolerance.

but whether it would be successful I can't say as I'm not a machinist.
that would leave you to just chamber and thread.
if you ported the barrel it could act as a in built brake for a home build suppressor and reduce rise when unsuppressed

[Akzle]

Putting down calves with a pistol would be bloody handy.... if it was legal to carry pistols for more than target shooting... be handy for pigs as well, compact on a side holster for when required, not long and cumbersome like a rifle.... but I doubt that will ever be legal in NZ

but yes a little .22 will do the job nicely for putting down calves, open sites is what I would use, easy for close and no scope to knock around

764mm .410 shotty. Saw a few for sale while back but seem not to be in vogue. Good piggin gun with solids.

[Pickle]

I believe you can use a handgun for hunting in Australia. The only gun law they have that is better than ours and makes sense.

Need a special licence to own a pistol in Aussie also must attend a number of club meetings per year, other than that pistols fairly cheap here