I'm thinking of getting into dirt. What bike?

[Crasherfromwayback]

disagree totally, old fuel is harder to start, def much worse on a carb'd bike tho, as the stuff in the carb goes off with all the vents , ,

Plus one. Creates all sorts of problems.

[Jay GTI]

But how old is old? I agree having old fuel sitting in a carb for a long period is an issue, but 6 months on a FI bike I wouldn't have thought would be a problem.

[Crasherfromwayback]

But how old is old? I agree having old fuel sitting in a carb for a long period is an issue, but 6 months on a FI bike I wouldn't have thought would be a problem.

Even several weeks can be a prob mate. When it evaporates off it leaves behind a horrible gunk. And it looses it's potency pretty bloody quickly too.

[scott411]

But how old is old? I agree having old fuel sitting in a carb for a long period is an issue, but 6 months on a FI bike I wouldn't have thought would be a problem.

anything over a couple of months is to long,

it can be harder on FI stuff as well, i have seen bikes that have sat for a couple of years need new fuel pumps, as the gunk has dried in the in tank fuel filter/pump and has needed replacing, they are not cheap to replace,

[Jay GTI]

anything over a couple of months is to long,

it can be harder on FI stuff as well, i have seen bikes that have sat for a couple of years need new fuel pumps, as the gunk has dried in the in tank fuel filter/pump and has needed replacing, they are not cheap to replace,

Yeah did a fuel pump on the 350, that was a nice $950 well spent... but that was more to do with the filter and pump design on the first bikes, the '12s had a different pump and filter.

I guess what I'm clumisly trying to say is I'd be reluctant to accept old fuel as an excuse for a bike that won't start, as it might point to bigger problems, like a bike that is in need of a top end rebuilt.

[scott411]

Yeah did a fuel pump on the 350, that was a nice $950 well spent... but that was more to do with the filter and pump design on the first bikes, the '12s had a different pump and filter.

I guess what I'm clumisly trying to say is I'd be reluctant to accept old fuel as an excuse for a bike that won't start, as it might point to bigger problems, like a bike that is in need of a top end rebuilt.

having spent most of my adult life selling dirt bikes, i know old fuel makes bikes hard to start, with my first boss we did a weekly start ups of the whole show room, but as we got bigger and busier this became alot harder, if i knew someone was coming to look at a bike i always tried to start it before they arrived,

the fuel pump issue you had would be more likely dust/dirt, and as you say a bad filter design, rather than stale fuel tho, although none of the fuel injection systems seem to have replaceable filters for the in tank fuel pumps, that I have seen anyway,

[Jay GTI]

having spent most of my adult life selling dirt bikes, i know old fuel makes bikes hard to start, with my first boss we did a weekly start ups of the whole show room, but as we got bigger and busier this became alot harder, if i knew someone was coming to look at a bike i always tried to start it before they arrived,

the fuel pump issue you had would be more likely dust/dirt, and as you say a bad filter design, rather than stale fuel tho, although none of the fuel injection systems seem to have replaceable filters for the in tank fuel pumps, that I have seen anyway,

Yeah combination of dirt and poor design, apparently. The new pump was a different unit and failure of the fuel pump was a well-known issue. And you're right, the '12 filter was different but that was on the output side of the pump, so wouldn't have affected the pump itself. However injector blockage and failure was also an issue on the '11 bikes...

Fair enough on the old fuel thing, I have way less experience, so can only draw on the few bikes I've owned, which is nothing compared to what you and Crasher have dealt with.

With a 2011 bike with only 60hrs on the meter, there's been more than a couple of months between rides at times and no starting issues for me. Over 3 months since my last ride and it fired up straight away on Sunday when I prepped it for Waikaretu this Sunday, but I'll fully admit the magic button helps a lot (so not saying that makes me right or anything).

Fingers crossed it is old fuel for the OP then.

[george formby]

Just googled a KFX 450. 4 wheels no less. So I'm guessing it's a dyslexic KXF.

On the piccies it looks organic start. Hopefully just a right leg running in process.

[Brett]

If you collected it from him and paid him there and then...I wouldn't have paid him until it went mate.

Yeah, not my brightest moment. Was under pressure at collection, was 8:30pm and still had to get back to the office to finish some urgent work before going home having started at 6:30am..not really on my bet form. Hopefully the thing isn't a lemon and runs ok. My old man had a crack at it this afternoon and couldn't get it to start either. I'm hoping that there is some knack to this I am missing. Otherwise I might be trying my luck on getting my cash back.

[Brett]

Just googled a KFX 450. 4 wheels no less. So I'm guessing it's a dyslexic KXF.

On the piccies it looks organic start. Hopefully just a right leg running in process.

Yeah, will make some time on Saturday to do a basic go over including new fuel and see if it helps. Certainly sounds like a fuel issue. My old man could get it to fire, but not stay running. Not quite the beginning to dirt riding I was after, but hey - not worth getting into a tiz about just yet, got to confirm there is a problem before getting too stressed.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Yeah, not my brightest moment. Was under pressure at collection, was 8:30pm and still had to get back to the office to finish some urgent work before going home having started at 6:30am..not really on my bet form. Hopefully the thing isn't a lemon and runs ok. My old man had a crack at it this afternoon and couldn't get it to start either. I'm hoping that there is some knack to this I am missing. Otherwise I might be trying my luck on getting my cash back.

Ok. If you haven't had any practice at starting big singles...there's def a knack to it. First things first...drain the so called old fuel mate.

Then you've really gotta make sure you let the kickstart lever get to the VERY top of the avail stroke once you've moved them through tdc. Even one wee ratchet or two from full stroke can fuck things up unless you're a real tough cunt. Then you've gotta jump on that cunt like you're trying to bust it's balls. Any form of half arsed kick is like trying to piss into the wind. Spray some engine start into the airbox.

[Brett]

Depending on the outcome of this (and for future reference) who is a good Kawasaki dirt dealer or service center in the Auckland region to use? Happy to do basic maintenance myself, but time is a very very valuable commodity to me at the moment.

[Brett]

Ok. If you haven't had any practice at starting big singles...there's def a knack to it. First things first...drain the so called old fuel mate.

Then you've really gotta make sure you let the kickstart lever get to the VERY top of the avail stroke once you've moved them through tdc. Even one wee ratchet or two from full stroke can fuck things up unless you're a real tough cunt. Then you've gotta jump on that cunt like you're trying to bust it's balls. Any form of half arsed kick is like trying to piss into the wind. Spray some engine start into the airbox.

Two things:

1) Maybe a dumb question, but how do you know when it is at tdc?

2) From your description it should be a bitch to kick over...mine definitely isn't too bad - compression issue??

[Crasherfromwayback]

Depending on the outcome of this (and for future reference) who is a good Kawasaki dirt dealer or service center in the Auckland region to use? Happy to do basic maintenance myself, but time is a very very valuable commodity to me at the moment.

Check with Scott. He's an honest straight up geezer that knows the K dealers and his shit well.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Two things:

1) Maybe a dumb question, but how do you know when it is at tdc?

2) From your description it should be a bitch to kick over...mine definitely isn't too bad - compression issue??

Not dumb at all mate. Kick them through very slowly...you'll feel them come up on the compression stroke. Soon as they go over tdc you'll feel it. Then give it what for.

It'll have (I'm assuming) an automatic decompression system that makes them easier to kick over. But that doesn't always mean that just kicking them like a two stroke is the best way to start them. I've seen all sorts of very experienced riders/racers struggle with them mate. And whilst I'm only a little fulla...I've never really struggled due to technique I guess learnt from trying to fire up open class two strokes as a scrawny teenager.