Oh dear, Jeremy has to make public apology for "mumbling" that word

[Ocean1]

Because they earned it? All by themselves?

No. They paid others for services and material. They also paid for the infrastructure required for production of their goods/services. In fact they paid several times for that infrastructure, and still haven't got what they paid for.

As you well know market forces aren't what they appear to be and even if the free market existed there'd still be the same issues as the market would dictate "value" in exactly the same way as it currently does... unless of course it lived up to its name and was free that is. Monopolies will still be formed and any form of "legislation" that is implemented to the contrary obviously goes against the free market.

So the free market that would make commerce fair wouldn't work because the market would dictate that it wouldn't be free?

Fuck, with drivel like that you shoulda been protesting about NZ's inequitable equalities along with all the other fuckwits today.

[bogan]

For the same reason statistic was in quotes. It may well be a number made up by the plebs to suit their agenda and I guess we'll never fully know for sure... but as pointed out by Voltaire, it likely looks easier to pummel those who can't defend themselves and it'll appease the righteous entitlement brigade and reinforce the notion that they can get away with "fraud" and not be chased.

What you mean never know for sure, seems pretty fucking specific to not be backed up by traceable figures. So I'll just chalk it up to BS concocted by the plebs to pummel those who can't defend themselves.

[Ocean1]

What you mean never know for sure, seems pretty fucking specific to not be backed up by traceable figures. So I'll just chalk it up to BS concocted by the plebs to pummel those who can't defend themselves.

No, see, he's read an article on confirmation bias and it PROVES everyone else is selectively quoting shit.

[Robert Taylor]

Stop giving money to parasites that haven't earned it.

From the budget intro: “The future cost to taxpayers of people who received welfare in 2012/13 will be $76 B by the time they exit welfare or retire. About three quarters of that cost is due to people who first received a benefit under the age of 20.”

Exactly, what disturbs me are the number of people out there that think the ( any ) Government owes them a living. ''We need more funding, we need more funding'' ad infinitum. Well get out and earn the bloody money just like any self respecting person with a work ethic has to!!!!!! Most of us werent born with silver spoons in our mouths, we have to work hard at learning our vocations and do the hard yards.

If all the money that is continually being paid into revolving door treaty settlements ( with continual revisitations and top ups ad infinitum ) was instead redirected at retiring national debt and focused into enterprise and industry that is productive ( rather than speculative ) we would be a lot better off, AS ONE colour blind nation.

It is a lie that we are doing what we are doing. We could be as wealthy as Norway if we worked at it.

[mashman]

No. They paid others for services and material. They also paid for the infrastructure required for production of their goods/services. In fact they paid several times for that infrastructure, and still haven't got what they paid for.

So the free market that would make commerce fair wouldn't work because the market would dictate that it wouldn't be free?

Ahhh of course. As long as you pay you're entitled to do whatever you like.

... that's a fuckin good one... a free market that would make commerce fair. You missed your calling. Your utopia sounds a little socialist man.

What you mean never know for sure, seems pretty fucking specific to not be backed up by traceable figures. So I'll just chalk it up to BS concocted by the plebs to pummel those who can't defend themselves.

Your choice.

[Robert Taylor]

So you can take less from those that have earned it and give more to those that really need it.

Buying middle NZ's votes costs the minorities at both ends far more than is reasonable.

Getting rid of MMP would be a solid step.

[mashman]

No, see, he's read an article on confirmation bias and it PROVES everyone else is selectively quoting shit.

I said it was a "statistic"... nothing to do with an article. Fucktard. But don't let your bias prove anything other than that... coz it can't.

[Robert Taylor]

Ahhh of course. As long as you pay you're entitled to do whatever you like.

... that's a fuckin good one... a free market that would make commerce fair. You missed your calling. Your utopia sounds a little socialist man.



Your choice.

Like anyone with a sense of fair play I am averse to big corporates that ride roughshod over everybody. NZ is ( was ) a country of small businesses and all of the niche companies that do so well could be thriving ( and employing people to do something truly productive ) if there was less inhibitive red tape and significantly lower taxes.

Mining of the sea bed and ramped up oil exploration is something we should be doing hell for leather as long as much of the profit is kept in NZ and creates local jobs

[bogan]

Your choice.

And as always, I'll choose provable figures over simplistic confirmation bias any day.

Getting rid of MMP would be a solid step.

fucking aye.

[mashman]

Like anyone with a sense of fair play I am averse to big corporates that ride roughshod over everybody. NZ is ( was ) a country of small businesses and all of the niche companies that do so well could be thriving ( and employing people to do something truly productive ) if there was less inhibitive red tape and significantly lower taxes.

Mining of the sea bed and ramped up oil exploration is something we should be doing hell for leather as long as much of the profit is kept in NZ and creates local jobs

I grew up in the city and in the country and remember small enterprises very well along with the attitude that went with them. It's all but dead and that death is here, living and breathing in NZ and I'm sorry to tell you that it is only going to get worse. Can you deny that given that you've seen it yourself (both in the UK and here) or at least must have seen it yourself in order to make the statement. The ideology isn't just knocking on the door any more, it's a fixture and it's kept in place by our politicians. The system used to vote them in won't matter. I'd be quite happy to ditch the govt if only to laugh as the free market gets raped my monopoly after monopoly even more quickly than it currently is. You must see this? If price point is everything to the consumer, which it pretty much is, then monopolies are an absolute guarantee irrespective of market structure/tariff/red tape/taxation etc...

I don't agree with mining the seabed and oil exploration for profit, more for the sensible use of the resources (primarily locally), IF we were absolutely hell bent on keeping as much of the profit in NZ as possible, then where are the training facilities/platform production facilities/training programs etc...? why aren't we borrowing to set up that type of infrastructure given that it's such a money spinner? I'm going to plump for monopoly here.

And as always, I'll choose provable figures over simplistic confirmation bias any day.

And using confirmation bias to deny the existence of such figures is pure genius... that and I wasn't stating that it was factual or indeed was I offering an opinion based on those figures in any way shape or form. You ladies need some new stories to whack off too.

[Ocean1]

Ahhh of course. As long as you pay you're entitled to do whatever you like.

What the fuck are you on about? Buying services and materials is immoral now?

And actually, if you pay the agreed price and don't break the law it's none of anyone else's fucking business what you do with it.

On the other hand if you've paid for fuck all then you're entitled to sweet fuck all.

... that's a fuckin good one... a free market that would make commerce fair. You missed your calling. Your utopia sounds a little socialist man.

You were the one that reckoned a free market wouldn't be free, idiot. Whereas in fact every other form of market involves theft, pure and simple.

[Ocean1]

It's all but dead and that death is here, living and breathing in NZ and I'm sorry to tell you that it is only going to get worse.

Where did you get that wee "fact" from? Over 80% of NZ's economy is produced by SMEs.

In spite of every impediment socialist fuckwits like you have put in their way over many decades.

[bogan]

And using confirmation bias to deny the existence of such figures is pure genius... that and I wasn't stating that it was factual or indeed was I offering an opinion based on those figures in any way shape or form. You ladies need some new stories to whack off too.

If figures can't be backed up, then they can't be used. That isn't confirmation bias, that's just logic, aka, the scientific method. Enjoy your whinging, ya fucking pleb.

[mashman]

What the fuck are you on about? Buying services and materials is immoral now?

And actually, if you pay the agreed price and don't break the law it's none of anyone else's fucking business what you do with it.

You were the one that reckoned a free market wouldn't be free, idiot. Whereas in fact every other form of market involves theft, pure and simple.

Depends on whether you class shit wages as immoral.

And there it is. Legality v's Morality and you believing there's a correlation. There's a difference between growing old and growing up old man.

Every market involves theft where claim is laid to that which is not yours.

Where did you get that wee "fact" from? Over 80% of NZ's economy is produced by SMEs.

In spite of every impediment socialist fuckwits like you have put in their way over many decades.

I've seen it happening. You've yet to have the pleasure of city's surrounded by mega malls havenchu. By all means bury your head in the sand, but they're cropping up all over the place and the SME's in the general vicinities are going under. Mind you, you probably don't shop in those sorts of places.

Socialist ... moron.

If figures can't be backed up, then they can't be used. That isn't confirmation bias, that's just logic, aka, the scientific method. Enjoy your whinging, ya fucking pleb.

I verified 3 of the figures using documents from DWP and Parliament. Some of the DWP fraud is due to people having spent money that they had been overpaid by the govt. They want it back and therefore call it fraud when they can't get it back. Diddums. They should have software that works these days. You need better stories... or more likely, a little trust... man.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was possible to submit a tax return, have it processed by IRD and then receive a return acknowledgement issued with a $0 balance using NZ's up to date software.

[bogan]

I verified 3 of the figures using documents from DWP and Parliament. Some of the DWP fraud is due to people having spent money that they had been overpaid by the govt. They want it back and therefore call it fraud when they can't get it back. Diddums. They should have software that works these days. You need better stories... or more likely, a little trust... man.

Have you verified the 300 people frauding 72 billion though? Interesting choice of words with the 'stories' I don't need fuck all stories, because stories are irrelevant, only facts and figures are relevant. And trust the million dollar hammer salesman?