Cunliffe's constituent Liu?

[mashman]

If you cant see from all the data provided that housing affordability overall has gone down due to increased prices and can't grasp the logic that increased prices = increased mortgages then I doubt anything more specific would convince you.

Last shot - but I doubt you will make any sense of this:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ectid=10881119

Are those stats compiled before or after some for of make them figures look better than they actually are per capita measurement was applied? Coz home ownership dropping despite a huge surge in population and our never ending want to own our own homes as it's cheaper than renting really doesn't compute when you remove affordability as the reason. Nah, it must be the housing pixies encouraging people to rent and not own all of a sudden.

[mashman]

Why would you expect to?

Is this what you were looking for?: "Compared with 50 years ago, when I was just four years old, the average human now earns nearly three times as much money (corrected for inflation), eats one third more calories, buries two thirds fewer children, and can expect to live one third longer. In fact, it's hard to find any region of the world that's worse off now than it was then, even though the global population has more than doubled over that period."

Again: Only a fool would contend that every sector of humanity on the planet isn't better off now than they were a generation ago. And the cause of that improvement is mass production and global trade.

Why on earth would you fuck with that other than to protect it's freedom of expression?

Never mind.

Ahhhh yes, statistics to appease the dumb.

The improvement is not down to mass production and global trade by any means, they're just the logistics outcomes of human ingenuity. You keep putting the cart before the horse.

To make it better instead of sitting on one's laurels and relying on statistics to form a world view that excuses the shit that comes with the "success".

[Robert Taylor]

While we are busy bitching about politicians I see that the Snifter party ( Greens, green on outside , red on inside ) want to create another public holiday. We have too much holiday time already and our work ethic and productivity in many sectors is somewhat wanting. How out of touch are these idiots? They couldnt even answer what it would cost the country in further lost productivity

[Katman]

While we are busy bitching about politicians I see that the Snifter party ( Greens, green on outside , red on inside ) want to create another public holiday. We have too much holiday time already and our work ethic and productivity in many sectors is somewhat wanting. How out of touch are these idiots? They couldnt even answer what it would cost the country in further lost productivity

We should drop Easter, Christmas Day, Waitangi Day and Queens Birthday holidays. We'd have room for creating a few holidays that actually meant something then.

[bogan]

While we are busy bitching about politicians I see that the Snifter party ( Greens, green on outside , red on inside ) want to create another public holiday. We have too much holiday time already and our work ethic and productivity in many sectors is somewhat wanting. How out of touch are these idiots? They couldnt even answer what it would cost the country in further lost productivity

Implying blatant vote buying with flawed or no logic doesn't work. Unfortunately, it might not be just the greens that are out of touch here RT

[Robert Taylor]

Implying blatant vote buying with flawed or no logic doesn't work. Unfortunately, it might not be just the greens that are out of touch here RT

Yes, granted

[puddytat]

I thought I'd reinforce my right wing bastard credentials by posting a picture of Huka Lodge, where I was on Saturday.
They wouldn't let me go fishing using an unemployed person's baby as bait, though.
Soft pricks...

Attachment 298500

You could reinforce your credentials even more if you for once posted some evidence in support of your argument. Until then you are just full of wind.

In saying that though I didn't realise when I posted that the thread had moved on another 7 pages.
And still no evidence.

[Robert Taylor]

We should drop Easter, Christmas Day, Waitangi Day and Queens Birthday holidays. We'd have room for creating a few holidays that actually meant something then.

Waitangi day yes because its a farce. Easter no because it largely reflects our largely anglo saxon Christianity roots. Lizs birthday no because she is still our head of state and we should retain our ties to the United Kingdom. Where our immediate ancestors largely come from in spite of more recent dilution. Nothing much wrong with the public holidays we have but we certainly dont need more and 4 weeks paid holidays was a negative step.

[Katman]

Easter no because it largely reflects our largely anglo saxon Christianity roots. Lizs birthday no because she is still our head of state and we should retain our ties to the United Kingdom.

I struggle to take you seriously anymore Robert.

[Ocean1]

Imagine if we'd had an RMA back then, imagine if we'd had the ridiculous costs applied by councils...

Look at all those lovely "heritage" (does this word just mean "old"?) Villas and Bungalows around the country, spec-built by private developers. Land availability and bureaucratic ticket-clipping means there's basically no business case that works for jobbing builders to do this anymore.

Correct. Standards compliance related barriers are to blame for most of that. Particularly the teritorial authority related ones.

Right. Don't have time to cobble up wizards with hammers, but here's enough statistical obfuscation to keep mashie appeased for fucking yonks: From treasury: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publicat...6/06-03/10.htm



House prices have indeed risen much more than household income.



But the cost of ownership hasn’t changed that much. Mostly because people borrow to a risk they’re comfortable with, and interest rates dropped markedly later in that period.

So the size of the mortgages people are prepared to service has risen dramatically. And they’ve spent the extra on larger houses.

Much larger houses. From the commission's housing affordability enquiry: http://www.productivity.govt.nz/site...Report_0_0.pdf

"New Zealand houses are big.

At the national level, New Zealand houses are, on average, among the largest in the world (Figure 2.15). This has not always been the case. Since the 1950s, the average size of a new house has steadily increased, with particularly rapid growth between 1980 and 2010 (Figure 2.15). By 2010, the average new house was around 200m2, a great deal larger than a standard 1960's three-bedroom bungalow.

Indeed, in the 1960s, three-bedroom houses accounted for about 70% of all houses. But since 2000, new houses are more likely to have four rather than three bedrooms and five-bedroom houses have accounted for over 10% of new construction. In international comparison, the average size of a new house in New Zealand is now over double that in a number of European countries."



So there you have it. Housing related costs are up just a tad on historic levels. Which shouldn't really come as much of a surprise, after all it's house buyers that set the price they're happy to pay. Sorry, happy to allow the evel banks to rape them for. And interest rates have provide plenty of lube recently.

And in spite of this, new houses are not only twice the size they were a generation ago, but they're way, way bigger than those in most of the rest of the world. Twice the house for similar effort. AND a bunch of trick shit your grany never dreamed of.

Anyone ready to take on that elusive avg income/meter mission yet? Or does it continue to cause problems with failing to agree with shit?.

Edit: And the real driver of house prices is just beginning to be addressed: the cost of building. It's a fucking joke. and as noted above territorial authorities are the single biggest cause of that, and the commerce commission's incompetence in maintaining free market access most of the rest of it. Fix that and I promise your existing house values will plummet.

[Brian d marge]

Goood stuff have downloaded and will get back to you in all due course
thanks for posting credible links

Stephen

[Robert Taylor]

I struggle to take you seriously anymore Robert.

There are more pro-monarchy people than you have accounted for. Not everyone in this country is sympathetic to having a republic.

[Katman]

There are more pro-monarchy people than you have accounted for.

I bet there would be just as many who would see a greater significance in us celebrating Matariki.

[Robert Taylor]

I bet there would be just as many who would see a greater significance in us celebrating Matariki.

I will stick with the union flag thankyou.

[Brian d marge]

Re read that report again

Ill reply in depth when i geta chance but

Let me highlight a few point

The report touches on the supply of cheap money but does nottouch on the role of the banks

It also shows that houses have become too expensive

As you have pointed out the compliance
And structure of the industrylead to inefficiency

I suspect though that they are not the main drivers of in affordabilty

I will adress thecost per metre question because i also would like to know the answer

Correct. Standards compliance related barriers are to blame for most of that. Particularly the teritorial authority related ones.

Right. Don't have time to cobble up wizards with hammers, but here's enough statistical obfuscation to keep mashie appeased for fucking yonks: From treasury: http://www.treasury.govt.nz/publicat...6/06-03/10.htm



House prices have indeed risen much more than household income.



But the cost of ownership hasn’t changed that much. Mostly because people borrow to a risk they’re comfortable with, and interest rates dropped markedly later in that period.

So the size of the mortgages people are prepared to service has risen dramatically. And they’ve spent the extra on larger houses.

Much larger houses. From the commission's housing affordability enquiry: http://www.productivity.govt.nz/site...Report_0_0.pdf

"New Zealand houses are big.

At the national level, New Zealand houses are, on average, among the largest in the world (Figure 2.15). This has not always been the case. Since the 1950s, the average size of a new house has steadily increased, with particularly rapid growth between 1980 and 2010 (Figure 2.15). By 2010, the average new house was around 200m2, a great deal larger than a standard 1960's three-bedroom bungalow.

Indeed, in the 1960s, three-bedroom houses accounted for about 70% of all houses. But since 2000, new houses are more likely to have four rather than three bedrooms and five-bedroom houses have accounted for over 10% of new construction. In international comparison, the average size of a new house in New Zealand is now over double that in a number of European countries."



So there you have it. Housing related costs are up just a tad on historic levels. Which shouldn't really come as much of a surprise, after all it's house buyers that set the price they're happy to pay. Sorry, happy to allow the evel banks to rape them for. And interest rates have provide plenty of lube recently.

And in spite of this, new houses are not only twice the size they were a generation ago, but they're way, way bigger than those in most of the rest of the world. Twice the house for similar effort. AND a bunch of trick shit your grany never dreamed of.

Anyone ready to take on that elusive avg income/meter mission yet? Or does it continue to cause problems with failing to agree with shit?.

Edit: And the real driver of house prices is just beginning to be addressed: the cost of building. It's a fucking joke. and as noted above territorial authorities are the single biggest cause of that, and the commerce commission's incompetence in maintaining free market access most of the rest of it. Fix that and I promise your existing house values will plummet.