The GST con story

[R650R]

Notice all the stories in the media recently about how not paying GST on low cost private imports is hurting retailers, they cant compete etc....
Think about the maths for a second, a mere 15% difference in price plus the cost of international shipping and we're only talking about goods under say $400
And most of the time its likely a small purchase of say one or two books or computer game etc so price range $35-$100

Now lets pause to remember WHY we have GST in the first place. It was because the govt removed or lowered most import taxes and tariffs ages ago and shifted it from the importer/retailer paying the tax to the consumer paying the tax. And lets remember that business claim back the GST they pay on their electric bills, rent, staff tea coffe and milk etc where as joe blow consumer still has to pay that!
And in all those pre internet years did the retailers pass on those savings from reduced import levies or did they keep their prices the same and cream it...

I think whats happening is the stage is being set for a low price sub $400 instant import levy to be paid to compensate and it will be slapped on regardless of goods value, whether its a $35 dollar book or a $300 tyre.
Sounds fair but really its just more consumer dollars sucked up by taxman and less money left to spend at kiwi businesses.

We need to stand up and say we're sick of being screwed over multiple times tax wise. All these different things do is disguise how much the govt takes off us. And look at the massive lost producitivty absorbed just by the acco8unting time and costs in administering GST and all the paperwork etc.

The reality is the little mom and pop style store cant compete with modern big business, its not really about the big place being off shore. Butcher shops are being beaten down by supermarkets but the supermarkets still charge GST on their goods. And to me this is the same as whitcoulls vs the big overseas book sellers online, the gst component is irrelevant to the overall cost structure.
If we took GST off goods and increased income tax by 15% to 40% it would be the same but they'd be riots as people realise how much we are taxed...

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/ar...ectid=11302869

[bluninja]

So if you are a business and you claim back your GST for all the operating and capital expense items....does it go into your pocket? or do you just send less GST to "the man". All this offshore internet purchasing is just the same as tradespeople doing "off the books" or "cash in hand" work. The same work being done, but 15% cheaper because there's no GST and the person doing the work gets more in their pocket cos the taxman can't tax it. Like people don't want to save $20-30 for no extra effort on their part for the same product or service

[Voltaire]

So if you are a business and you claim back your GST for all the operating and capital expense items....does it go into your pocket? or do you just send less GST to "the man". All this offshore internet purchasing is just the same as tradespeople doing "off the books" or "cash in hand" work. The same work being done, but 15% cheaper because there's no GST and the person doing the work gets more in their pocket cos the taxman can't tax it. Like people don't want to save $20-30 for no extra effort on their part for the same product or service

Probably better the Tradesman puts the money back into the economy directly than let the retards in Wellington squander it.

Generally buying from overseas is way better than just the GST savings, I would not mind paying the GST but they stick other charges on and then add GST to that too.

[scrivy]

Or we could just buy everything off shore, and save bundles.........
Then we'll have no need for stores in NZ.....
Then we'll have higher unemployment.....
Then we'll have no one left to be able to buy stuff at all.....

I see it as a pointless exercise really, the cheaper we get stuff for from overseas, the more people will be out of work in NZ. And if people think they aren't indirectly affected by international purchases, then think again.
If my business goes belly up, then I'm not going to use your services. Simple really. It is a snowballing effect. Less business transactions, less businesses stay afloat, less services for their communities etc.

But you are right regarding big/little businesses.
The big guys are deliberately squashing the little guys. I've had alot of suppliers take off discounts that were on offer to me for the last 14 years, due to 'pressure' from the 'big boys' wanting a better buying price than independents. Doesn't the Commerce Commission enforce that the consumer is to get the best price? How can a little guy compete with the big guys when you don't pay the same wholesale price??
I run at a reasonable markup - (almost enough to live on), but I have alot of my items at lower prices than say the Warehouse. BUT, I pay more than them on alot of products. So how much markup do they need?? For example, I sold an item for $1.99, I went to the red shed to check their prices, and low and behold, they were $6.99!! So I put my price up to $3.99. People are slowly catching on to the fact that the red sheds are not that cheap now, and also that Briscoes have massively over inflated prices just to offer 30-60% discounts.
The playing field needs to be level to offer the best prices to the consumers.

It's the 'off the books' income that is hurting NZ. Imagine if the goobermint had tax on another 5 billion of legit sales. Maybe we could have a reduction in tax?????? (Yeah right), but we should at least have better services as a result.......

[Scuba_Steve]

They could add GST to all imports, would I still buy from overseas? Absolutely!
Dependant on the product there's still MASSIVE saving to be had by going international; especially in the likes of automotive, tools/hardware, media etc same would be said for clothes, shoes etc too if it weren't for those stupid levies

[Mike.Gayner]

Or we could just buy everything off shore, and save bundles.........
Then we'll have no need for stores in NZ.....
Then we'll have higher unemployment.....
Then we'll have no one left to be able to buy stuff at all.....

I see it as a pointless exercise really, the cheaper we get stuff for from overseas, the more people will be out of work in NZ. And if people think they aren't indirectly affected by international purchases, then think again.
If my business goes belly up, then I'm not going to use your services. Simple really. It is a snowballing effect. Less business transactions, less businesses stay afloat, less services for their communities etc.

Most people I know who buy things from overseas, myself included, understand this sentiment. But NZ retailers are taking the piss with their margins on some items.

[swarfie]

I don't know how anyone would want to buy anything at Briscoes when they don't have a sale on and I even baulk at buying there full stop. There's better deals to be had at some of the smaller places (bit of a punt for you there Scrivy ). When the Redshed came to Cambridge a few years ago they squeezed some of the other smaller shops out of business and that's unfortunately what they do. It's also not fair the way the wholesalers/importers give larger places better buy in prices either. It really makes it hard for smaller outfits to compete and survive. I don't do 'cashies' too much, I'd rather barter for my skills that way it's a win win for both parties. Not that I want to do that too much either as Iv'e generally got too much to keep my own bikes going.

[Voltaire]

[QUOTE=scrivy;1130754147]Or we could just buy everything off shore, and save bundles.........
Then we'll have no need for stores in NZ.....
Then we'll have higher unemployment.....
Then we'll have no one left to be able to buy stuff at all.....

QUOTE]

I'll play along.
Bring back the days when a few guys had the import licence and you had to pay whatever they wanted.
It was like East Germany here before the mid 80's
Before that you had that stupid " overseas funds" lark.
That's where a lot of " the old money " was made.
Look at the food Duopoly ....if I could get my groceries off the net I would.
I had the discounts discussion with my Electrical Wholesaler when I was a self employed sparkie/heat pump installer.
" Why can I get cable cheaper at Bunnings?"
" Ummmm.....er...."
Eventually I was able to source most of my materials cheaper elsewhere.
Clearly still good margins in plumbing and electrical supplies.

[JimO]

Most people I know who buy things from overseas, myself included, understand this sentiment. But NZ retailers are taking the piss with their margins on some items.

i bet the cunts use all that money to pay their staff, rent on buildings etc, greedy cunts

[Madness]

Some people should just stick to driving trucks.

[Rhys]

I bet The people whinging about the cost of NZ products are also complaining about wanting a pay rise

[mrchips]

I've bought heaps of stuff on-line & service has been exceptional. I couldn't find the stuff i needed here in NZ so any amount of GST will not change that.

NZ shops only stock what the general populus know of & demand.

The world wide interweb is a wonderfull thing

[R650R]

So if you are a business and you claim back your GST for all the operating and capital expense items....does it go into your pocket? or do you just send less GST to "the man

Generally most businesses are collecting the GST on behalf of the govt and its more than what they would claim on their own gst expenditure. But still here we have business not paying a certain tax but private individuals do.

All this offshore internet purchasing is just the same as tradespeople doing "off the books" or "cash in hand" work. The same work being done, but 15% cheaper because there's no GST and the person doing the work gets more in their pocket cos the taxman can't tax it.

That's another unmeasureable generalisation. I think the black economy is over stated for several reasons.
1) there's so many self righteous stasi out there now that will dob you in to authorities for doing cash jobs
2) Most of these type tradies will be semi retired and not doing a heap of jobs, btw GST does not need to be charged if your turnover is less than 60k a year.
3) that tradie is prob getting less in their pocket as 'doing a cheapie' you cant be charging the full monty rates anyway.
4) An off the books operation wouldn't e able to issue legitimate Tax Invoices for the work done which would severaly limit them to only servicing private individuals.

Just look at the Asian countries where small business people thrive, very little govt intervention and beauracrcacy...

[jasonu]

If there wasn't a public holiday that the employer has to pay his workers not to work (and thus not to produce profit for the company) every fucking week then I bet local stuff would be cheaper.

[R650R]

If there wasn't a public holiday that the employer has to pay his workers not to work (and thus not to produce profit for the company) every fucking week then I bet local stuff would be cheaper.

No it prob wouldn't. That's a bit like the we pay for shoplifters line.
Supply and demand, businesses will charge as much as the consumer will tolerate.