2014/2015 LAMS options?

[Ender EnZed]

Once they're up and going maybe, the sheer weight of a bike at low speeds and dismounted is something that learners need to get used to as well.

A larger capacity engine doesn't necessarily mean a heavier bike any more than it means more power though. If learners shouldn't be riding a heavy bike then the limit should be on weight (as well as power to weight).

The 660cc limit is just lazy thinking carried over from the old 250cc limit.

[Ender EnZed]

Well there's an interesting idea.... Lets learner approve 'oddball' bikes with a right hand gear change! (650cc Triumph's etc)

Yeah, I guess it's a bit like the IT465 and some others. It was technically allowed based on the data they used but the odds of someone finding a road legal one, deciding it'd be a good idea to learn to ride on it, and then binning it are so low that it just doesn't matter.

[GrayWolf]

Once they're up and going maybe, the sheer weight of a bike at low speeds and dismounted is something that learners need to get used to as well.

The 750 Guzzi uses the same bottom end as the 400/500/650 cc bikes of the 80's. Weight and size would be about the same. I've ridden the 1990's 750 ones, and the power/performance is very similar to the old 650/750cc Brit machines.

[frisken]

After seeing soo much publicity about the bloody MT-07 around the net, I took one for another ride on Monday, up in Auckland. Felt a lot more comfortable this time around. I didn't notice the little niggles that originally put me off the last time. Really enjoyed it this time. That extra power is great, and incredibly useful at any RPM.

Ended up putting a deposit on one the following day. The guy said they have sold 10 of them in the past month, and have another 7 coming in, 3 of which have already been sold. Bloody popular machine, but for good reason I'm hoping!

In conclusion to my original question: From what I can see, you can't really go wrong with that range of bikes at the moment. They all felt great, even though they all had fairly different approaches to the same problem. Pretty excited to pick up the MT though, that thing excites!

[breakaway]

IMO buying new vehicles is a HUGE waste of money. You will lose a TON of money on the bike as soon as its wheeled off the showroom floor. Being a 'first bike', it will likely get dropped and possibly treated like shit.

Buying a beater for learning and then graduating to a 'proper' bike is the way to do it. At least that way you don't lose a ton of money on a machine that you will likely sell in a year or so.

[5ive]

IMO buying new vehicles is a HUGE waste of money. You will lose a TON of money on the bike as soon as its wheeled off the showroom floor. Being a 'first bike', it will likely get dropped and possibly treated like shit.

Buying a beater for learning and then graduating to a 'proper' bike is the way to do it. At least that way you don't lose a ton of money on a machine that you will likely sell in a year or so.

Depends on the bike and what you're using it for, and any prior experience you may have. I'm glad I bought 'new' as I have a 2 year warranty, and don't have to worry about fixing/replacing parts all of the time. I'm using my bike to commute around Auckland every day during the week, and to travel around parts of the North Island on most weekends.

I certainly wouldn't want to be doing that on a second hand learners bike that has been "dropped and possibly treated like shit"

I could even see myself keeping it as an "around town" bike after gaining my full license, or sell it to pay a deposit on another 'new' bigger bike, not always a bad investment considering the currently over-priced second-hand LAMS market.

[Sushi Bandit]

not always a bad investment considering the currently over-priced second-hand LAMS market.

True, once all these new LAMS bikes (like the MT-07) have depreciated a bit it in a couple of years it will be a real buyers market for learner riders.

[frisken]

Thanks for the opinion, but I'm not a new rider so I don't plan on "dropping it" or "treating it like shit" (I will probably drop it now, after saying that). Also, I would consider this a "proper bike" despite its LAMS label. You should take some of these bikes for a ride one day, there's nothing "unproper" about them.

I appreciate the feedback though, just sucks it came through the day after I put down my deposit. I plan on keeping this bike for many years yet, thus the investment. The LAMS market should hold its value too. Just because there is an influx of newer, larger options doesn't mean that the market is going to depreciate. The only market that will depreciate will be the 250cc market.

Anywho, I'm pretty fucking excited for the bike. And it seems I'm not the only person who's investing in an MT-07 seeing as they're selling like hotcakes (in fact, from what I've heard, most of the larger LAMS options are selling well). Will have to fill you all in once I've got it on the rode and tested it out properly for a few weeks!

[mossy1200]

In all honesty sometimes a bike with less power makes you feel like your riding it rather than walking it.
Most bikes go fast easily and gets used a small fraction of their potential.
Having owned a MT01 I would buy MT07 or MT03 as a one up fun weekend bike while keeping the 14 for 2 up and long distance riding with luggage.

[GrayWolf]

Thanks for the opinion, but I'm not a new rider so I don't plan on "dropping it" or "treating it like shit" (I will probably drop it now, after saying that). Also, I would consider this a "proper bike" despite its LAMS label. You should take some of these bikes for a ride one day, there's nothing "unproper" about them.

I appreciate the feedback though, just sucks it came through the day after I put down my deposit. I plan on keeping this bike for many years yet, thus the investment. The LAMS market should hold its value too. Just because there is an influx of newer, larger options doesn't mean that the market is going to depreciate. The only market that will depreciate will be the 250cc market.

Anywho, I'm pretty fucking excited for the bike. And it seems I'm not the only person who's investing in an MT-07 seeing as they're selling like hotcakes (in fact, from what I've heard, most of the larger LAMS options are selling well). Will have to fill you all in once I've got it on the rode and tested it out properly for a few weeks!

Likelihood is, given a couple of years or so, you will either be able to purchase an 'upgrade ECU from yamaha' ( for which they will charge like a wounded bull), or, as with the MT-01, there are a couple of guys who can reflash (upgrade) your existing ECU, or have S/hand 'full power' ones available. From what I've read the only 'diff' physically is the bore is 2mm smaller on the LAMS version to bring the CC rating down. So I'd imagine the power difference between the upgraded LAMs bike and a 'full MT-07' would be bugger all.

[jamiestreet]

All this love for the MT 07 has me really interested...

I'm in my learner period and am looking for a new bike to last me for a (longer) while. The MT 07 looks quite good for this...
It is exactly what I'm looking for in terms of looks - I love these naked bikes A LOT. The only concern I have is power... 50HP doesn't seem like it would last me very long. Is this the full power of the bike or is this the restricted power? I kind of suspect the former? I am investing in a bike now for the long haul and don't really want to be disappointed in a year's time with the power. If anyone else has been in a similar situation with a similar bike I'd love some input. I use my bike around town (CHCH) and for about 15 minutes of open (straight) road twice a day. I'd like to also be able to do longer trips in the future though - would this bike handle them alright? Longer being 350-450ks a day.

Thanks

[GrayWolf]

All this love for the MT 07 has me really interested...

I'm in my learner period and am looking for a new bike to last me for a (longer) while. The MT 07 looks quite good for this...
It is exactly what I'm looking for in terms of looks - I love these naked bikes A LOT. The only concern I have is power... 50HP doesn't seem like it would last me very long. Is this the full power of the bike or is this the restricted power? I kind of suspect the former? I am investing in a bike now for the long haul and don't really want to be disappointed in a year's time with the power. If anyone else has been in a similar situation with a similar bike I'd love some input. I use my bike around town (CHCH) and for about 15 minutes of open (straight) road twice a day. I'd like to also be able to do longer trips in the future though - would this bike handle them alright? Longer being 350-450ks a day.

Thanks

Ok I'll play nice.....

If you read all the posts regarding theMT-07 AND actually google, you'll see 50bhp is the LAM's version. As for '50bhp' not lasting you very long. Really?? Bikes like the XT, KLR, DR 650 ONLY have about 45bhp..... and they seem to last people plenty of time....
BHP is all about speed, not necessarily about USEABLE power in the real world (torque). You can do big distances on aGN250 if you want to... just allow oodles of time! So a 50bhp, 700cc bike, will easily cope with 400km's.

[jamiestreet]

Ok I'll play nice.....

If you read all the posts regarding theMT-07 AND actually google, you'll see 50bhp is the LAM's version. As for '50bhp' not lasting you very long. Really?? Bikes like the XT, KLR, DR 650 ONLY have about 45bhp..... and they seem to last people plenty of time....
BHP is all about speed, not necessarily about USEABLE power in the real world (torque). You can do big distances on aGN250 if you want to... just allow oodles of time! So a 50bhp, 700cc bike, will easily cope with 400km's.

Hi, thanks for your reply.
I know the bike was originally designed as a 690cc bike in other markets with 75~ish horsepower. I've read that Yamaha has actually changed the bike for our markets (reducing bore to get <661cc etc). I was wondering if when they did this change, the power output now is actually the full output the bike can produce, or instead if it is restricted.

As for the speed thing, fair enough about the useable power notion. I do believe that everyone is different though when it comes to the power matter. Also when I was asking about long trips, I was more talking about the comfort of the bike (naked so no wind protection, seat, vibrations etc.) I know the Bike would handle highway cruising speeds fine power wise

Thanks for your reply.

[frisken]

How long have you been riding for? Sounds like we're in a similar position.

Your first post alluded to your concerns being around a lack of power, your second post was more focused on touring comfort. I'll try to answer both, as best I can from a LAMS rider's POV of the MT-07.

If you read through the thread you'll see my posts. Over a period of a few weeks I took out most of the larger LAMS bikes currently available: Gladius 650, Triumph Street Triple 660, Kawasaki ERF-6, Honda CB500F and the Yamaha MT-07. I won't delve too deeply into the ins and outs of each bike, but I was hugely impressed by the Triumph, the Honda and now the MT-07.

Reason for not buying the Triumph: Too expensive. This was a great bike, and added a lot of thrill to the ride. Felt great in basically every aspect, but the dealer wouldn't budge at all on the price, in fact when I inquired he even put the price up $1000 because Triumph had changed their pricing (apparently).

Reason for not buying the Honda: Lack of usable power. Everything felt great about the CB500F, and it sounds like I had similar concerns to what you have: Getting too comfortable with the power too early on. It lacked a little "passing power" up around the 110km/h - 140km/h range, which I was really hoping to get. We're also talking a $10000 investment here, you want it to keep you excited.

Reason for buying the MT-07: Ticked the right boxes. Take one for a ride and see how it feels. The "usable power" mentioned above means a fuckload more than any bhp number written on paper. The bike had plenty of go, where ever you were sitting on the rev range. The wheel comes up taking off in first, then again in second and feels feather light in third if you give it enough and still has plenty of go when you're passing at highway speeds.

Comfort of the MT-07: Hard to say without giving it a good slog. I certainly didn't feel any aches, pains or niggles during my 45 or so minute test ride, but you shouldn't. You can get touring screens etc to alleviate the wind, but it's a naked. If you want/need a touring machine, buy a touring bike. It's a naked, and is good for what it's good for -- street riding.

My advice is: Go out and take them for test rides.

[jamiestreet]

How long have you been riding for? Sounds like we're in a similar position.

Your first post alluded to your concerns being around a lack of power, your second post was more focused on touring comfort. I'll try to answer both, as best I can from a LAMS rider's POV of the MT-07.

If you read through the thread you'll see my posts. Over a period of a few weeks I took out most of the larger LAMS bikes currently available: Gladius 650, Triumph Street Triple 660, Kawasaki ERF-6, Honda CB500F and the Yamaha MT-07. I won't delve too deeply into the ins and outs of each bike, but I was hugely impressed by the Triumph, the Honda and now the MT-07.

Reason for not buying the Triumph: Too expensive. This was a great bike, and added a lot of thrill to the ride. Felt great in basically every aspect, but the dealer wouldn't budge at all on the price, in fact when I inquired he even put the price up $1000 because Triumph had changed their pricing (apparently).

Reason for not buying the Honda: Lack of usable power. Everything felt great about the CB500F, and it sounds like I had similar concerns to what you have: Getting too comfortable with the power too early on. It lacked a little "passing power" up around the 110km/h - 140km/h range, which I was really hoping to get. We're also talking a $10000 investment here, you want it to keep you excited.

Reason for buying the MT-07: Ticked the right boxes. Take one for a ride and see how it feels. The "usable power" mentioned above means a fuckload more than any bhp number written on paper. The bike had plenty of go, where ever you were sitting on the rev range. The wheel comes up taking off in first, then again in second and feels feather light in third if you give it enough and still has plenty of go when you're passing at highway speeds.

Comfort of the MT-07: Hard to say without giving it a good slog. I certainly didn't feel any aches, pains or niggles during my 45 or so minute test ride, but you shouldn't. You can get touring screens etc to alleviate the wind, but it's a naked. If you want/need a touring machine, buy a touring bike. It's a naked, and is good for what it's good for -- street riding.

My advice is: Go out and take them for test rides.

Thanks for your reply mate - very informative. I will try and get the MT 07 out for a test ride as soon as possible. I've been riding now for about 6 months as a daily - in all conditions really - and just looking for an upgrade that will be worthwhile & keep me going for a few years into the future. My current bike doesn't even lift the front wheel in first at full throttle

90% of my riding will definitely be around town, with the odd ~two-three hour round trip somewhere occasionally. I've ridden the CBR and was not very impressed with it's power (specifically overtaking). I'm trying to get a test ride in at a dealership here as soon as possible. Do you know if the bike is 'restricted' in power (as in it can be made more powerful by removing restrictors) or that is actually the full power of this market-specific bike? I'm also looking at a Ninja 650 - but I really don't like the fairing layout of it. Feels too busy for me, too much plastic and a lot of it really doesn't feel very high quality. I'll try and take one for a test ride though at some point.

Thanks.