"Lest we forget"

[mstriumph]

Classy thread- KB dips to a new low.

erm ... only if you don't know that mstriumph is also a Jewish name?

[James Deuce]

History says they succeeded. And frankly I'd take their choice any day of the week over attempting to protect individual freedoms from people who "just know better", those who incrementally erode our freedoms under the guise of "the greater good".

That is a good point. I do flinch from the auto-Hero worship mode the US have gone into in regard to their current crop of troops. I suspect it is because most Americans are subconciously uncomfortable with the moral justifications used for the US's violent attempts to maintain economic control of the world.

[Voltaire]

Japan attacked Australia - read my post re my citizenship - because of Australia's alliance with Britain
Germany attacked Britain - read my post re my citizenship - because of Britain's overseas alliance (Poland)

my contention is that neither attack would have happened if Britain and Australia had had the sense to stay OUT of other people's squabbles

if you want it closer to NZ (read my post etc etc) then defend, if you can, the slaughter of NZers at Gallipoli ... WHY THE HELL WERE THEY THERE??? Because our government (speaking as a NZer now) blindly followed where others led.

.... and someone who can't formulate the plural of 'supply' has no right to call someone who can names .... you dickhead.

Agree with " lest we forget"

Had Britain not declared war on Germany its highly likely the Germans would have won in Europe as they probably would have beaten the Russians not having to fight on two fronts.
The Germans may have just left the UK alone as they were not that interested in a war with them.
As bad as Gallipoli was there were French and British troops there at the other end of the peninsula, lots of cemetaries at the Cape Helles end.
They were there as the Western Front had stalemated and Churchill ( I think) had the idea of attacking the Austro Hungarian Empire via the balkans
The High Command were from another era and did not have the skills to manage a modern mechanized war.

Monument at the Somme: 20 000 killed in one day. Attacking German machine guns head on was the best plan Douglas Haig could come up with.




Anzac Cove - 2004

[Katman]

Hey - don't knock me because I don't 'choose' to go marching into someone else's country to play with a lot of armament the government would NEVER let me get my hands on at home, shoot random foreigners I've never been introduced to BECAUSE THEY ARE DEFENDING THEIR OWN SOIL, and blow other people's shit up.

If someone has attacked you, personally, then by all means go after them ... but to shoot strangers in their own country because some pack of unrepresentative swill (thank you Mr Keating) of a government wants to make brownie points with their overseas counterparts???? The mind boggles.

That's precisely why NZ (and Australia if they had any sense) should keep their fucking noses out of the whole ISIS deal.

[Banditbandit]

[Big Dog]

I don't care for their motives.
I am grateful for their sacrifice.

I don't agree with the decisions of the powers that be, but for all those who laid their lives on the line that I might have the freedom to have my own opinion and express I now bow my head.
Even if I don't agree with some of the sentiments in this thread at least we have the choice to speak freely, make informed decisions and live without religious or racial persecution. So thank you to all who I disagree with for reminding me of the importance of the sacrifice made by so many over so little.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.

[R650R]

That is a good point. I do flinch from the auto-Hero worship mode the US have gone into in regard to their current crop of troops. I suspect it is because most Americans are subconciously uncomfortable with the moral justifications used for the US's violent attempts to maintain economic control of the world.

I had the pleasure (as individual people they are very friendly, I just disagree with their foreign policy disasters) prior to and during Gulf War II of delivering foodstuffs to several USAFE bases for about 6 months.
Back then I still believed the official story of 911 with just JFK and Diana being the only conspiracies I was aware of like most ordinary people.
I became good friends with several military personal. With an obvious sense of guilt and self doubt and making sure no one else was listening they would ask me every few weeks or so, "Do you think we're doing the right thing?" "Are we bombing the right country" etc and along those lines.

[SPman]

What we should Remember on Remembrance Day is just how we much can learn from the past…and just how little changes in the future if we don’t learn from the past.

The First World War began in August 1914 because a collection of six treaties had been signed, a very obscure radical had assassinated a fairly obscure Archduke, and two sides of the same Royal family were playing a game called Battleships. Somewhere between 8 and 10 million people died as a result. For nothing. You can be certain it was for nothing, because Germany remained bitter about losing, and that too was a major factor in Hitler’s rise to power. The Arab nations who fought against the Turks were cheated out of their gains – a spectre still with us today – and Hungary lost two thirds of its territory simply because it was part of the losing Hapsburg dynasty’s empire.

The Second World War began on September 3rd 1939. Billed as a fight to eliminate fascism, it did this by taking the most cruel fascist regime in history, the USSR, to its bosom after 1941. In fact, the war was fought against Germany and Japan to protect three Empires: the British, American, and Russian. Thirty years on, weapons had become more efficient, and the idea of bombing folks was considerably more in vogue….as indeed it still is today. So this time, 48 million people died. For nothing.

You can be certain it was for nothing, for, among other reasons:

- The two main winners claimed it as a victory for liberty and democracy. 70 years on, both countries are bankrupt, and heading pell-mell towards corporacratic dictatorship. The conditions of the average citizen are rapidly declining. Viciously brutal religious fascists are murdering infidels on an industrial scale. The solution to this is….to bomb folks. In Vietnam, the solution was…to bomb Cambodia. In Iraq, the solution was ..... to bomb Baghdad. Some bombing of Syria is already taking place.

- The third winning combatant no longer exists, having collapsed under the weight of its own repression. It has been replaced by a vaguely official mafia of moguls, and the condition of the average Russian citizen is as bad as ever.

- The alleged main loser was divided into two countries, and given billions in Marshall Aid. 70 years on, it is the dominating member of a European Union whose size and illberal tendencies would’ve pleased Adolf Hitler no end.

- Today, the vast majority of “thinking progressives” vilify Israel. Antisemitism in central, east and south eastern Europe is as nastily casual as it ever was. Israel hasn’t exactly covered itself in glory, but 75 years after the Iranian Ba’ath Party held secret meetings with SS representatives – following which a letter bulging with fulsome praise for annihilation plans for the Jews was dispatched to the Reich Chancellery – Israelis still find themselves surrounded by hostile Arabs as bitter as ever about the way they were cheated in 1919, 1926, and 1947

and so it goes............

“Remember the glorious dead” say the idiots....

There is no glory in any death that achieves nothing.

On Remembrance Day, this is what we should remember:

War solves nothing and changes precious little!

[jonbuoy]

erm ... only if you don't know that mstriumph is also a Jewish name?

So you were quite happy with Hitlers actions- no reason to get involved?

[oldrider]

So you were quite happy with Hitlers actions- no reason to get involved?

She didn't say or even infer that ... you are just being facetious jonbuoy ... hmmm, maybe even stupid! ... No, facetious will do it!

[jonbuoy]

She didn't say or even infer that ... you are just being facetious jonbuoy ... hmmm, maybe even stupid! ... No, facetious will do it!

Are you going senile? Your posts are getting more and more bizarre. That's exactly whats she's implying- with a "don't get involved its not my problem" attitude. A remembrance thread is supposed to be about honouring the memory of the people who died doing what they thought was the right thing - not about soap boxing with inflammatory comments.

[Akzle]

So you were quite happy with Hitlers actions- no reason to get involved?

given that he was financed by jews in england... as a presumably english mongrel, you should be.

[jonbuoy]

This is exactly why remembrance threads and politics threads should be seperate.

[Akzle]

A remembrance thread is supposed to be about honouring the memory of the people who died doing what they thought was the right thing

that's a judgement call. and not yours to make.

[Voltaire]

The First World War began in August 1914 because a collection of six treaties had been signed, a very obscure radical had assassinated a fairly obscure Archduke, and two sides of the same Royal family were playing a game called Battleships. Somewhere between 8 and 10 million people died as a result. For nothing. You can be certain it was for nothing, because Germany remained bitter about losing, and that too was a major factor in Hitler’s rise to power. The Arab nations who fought against the Turks were cheated out of their gains – a spectre still with us today – and Hungary lost two thirds of its territory simply because it was part of the losing Hapsburg dynasty’s empire.

The Second World War began on September 3rd 1939. Billed as a fight to eliminate fascism, it did this by taking the most cruel fascist regime in history, the USSR, to its bosom after 1941. In fact, the war was fought against Germany and Japan to protect three Empires: the British, American, and Russian. Thirty years on, weapons had become more efficient, and the idea of bombing folks was considerably more in vogue….as indeed it still is today. So this time, 48 million people died. For nothing.

You can be certain it was for nothing, for, among other reasons:

- The two main winners claimed it as a victory for liberty and democracy. 70 years on, both countries are bankrupt, and heading pell-mell towards corporacratic dictatorship. The conditions of the average citizen are rapidly declining. Viciously brutal religious fascists are murdering infidels on an industrial scale. The solution to this is….to bomb folks. In Vietnam, the solution was…to bomb Cambodia. In Iraq, the solution was ..... to bomb Baghdad. Some bombing of Syria is already taking place.

- The third winning combatant no longer exists, having collapsed under the weight of its own repression. It has been replaced by a vaguely official mafia of moguls, and the condition of the average Russian citizen is as bad as ever.

- The alleged main loser was divided into two countries, and given billions in Marshall Aid. 70 years on, it is the dominating member of a European Union whose size and illberal tendencies would’ve pleased Adolf Hitler no end.

- Today, the vast majority of “thinking progressives” vilify Israel. Antisemitism in central, east and south eastern Europe is as nastily casual as it ever was. Israel hasn’t exactly covered itself in glory, but 75 years after the Iranian Ba’ath Party held secret meetings with SS representatives – following which a letter bulging with fulsome praise for annihilation plans for the Jews was dispatched to the Reich Chancellery – Israelis still find themselves surrounded by hostile Arabs as bitter as ever about the way they were cheated in 1919, 1926, and 1947

and so it goes............

where do you find this drivel.