Speed - what slows you down?

[Scuba_Steve]

It's the speed scam accusation that causes me to revile the most.

The folk who allegedly perpetrate it have no idea they are doing so.

Maybe that's coz it's not a scam. Maybe it is, just well hidden, and visionaries such as yourself are the few who can see it.

It's a scam in the fact that it is claimed for "safety" yet has never once been shown to do as claimed, in-fact there are studies showing it does the exact opposite.
As I have mentioned even John Lambert a man who has worked in road safety for over half a century & continues to do so now has gone on record saying "there is no reputable study anywhere in the world that shows it works, not one" (& no offence but I'mma take the word of a dude in road safety for over half a century over that of a dude that pushes a gang policy especially since the evidence backs his claims) yet here it is continued to be pushed for "safety" with no evidence to back the claim up while the running of it is illegal & in complete disregard for NZ legislation & peoples rights.

It's like the whole paid parking "to keep vehicles moving & free up parks" we all know that's BS too & I have some respect for the WCC as they'll actually admit it, they come straight out & say it's to make the council $$$ (course I still don't respect the fact they do it in the 1st place but at-least they're not lying about why they do it)

[bluninja]

I think people lose sight of the fact of human nature. It wouldn't matter what the speed limit was, many would want to exceed it, even if only by a few km/hr. I typically set my cruise control at around 101-102, why? Before the clampdown, I would set it at 104 to take advantage of the tolerance.

If large numbers of people are speeding then it suggests that the speed limit is wrong; your view of human nature is flawed and perhaps egocentric. Were your presumption correct then, in places where no speed limit applies, the following behaviours and consequences would be evidenced:-

1) Most people would drive or ride at the maximum speed of their vehicle.
2) The accident, death and injury rate on those roads would be higher than on speed restricted roads.

Some are very capable and very experienced and can drive/ride at a level well above the speed limit. The fact that they don't always know who they are, though, is testified by so many deaths where the driver/rider is solely to blame. Who judges one's capability?

Hmmmm...I guess that's why things are called accidents. The logical conclusions to your line of comment is that nobody should be allowed to ride/drive a vehicle, or that speed limits should be so low (like Bermuda 35kmh) that it's almost impossible to be killed in an accident.

Perhaps reading about Self Regulation would remove the need for your cruise control and help broaden your horizons.

In the end, it is a fact of living in a society that we take the majority and/or authority view, and if you don't like it, you have two options. Break the rules and freely accept the consequences, or go and live somewhere else.

Nope...in a democratically elected government governed society there may be the initial 2 options...the third is revolution......

[Edbear]

If large numbers of people are speeding then it suggests that the speed limit is wrong; your view of human nature is flawed and perhaps egocentric. Were your presumption correct then, in places where no speed limit applies, the following behaviours and consequences would be evidenced:-

1) Most people would drive or ride at the maximum speed of their vehicle.
2) The accident, death and injury rate on those roads would be higher than on speed restricted roads.



Hmmmm...I guess that's why things are called accidents. The logical conclusions to your line of comment is that nobody should be allowed to ride/drive a vehicle, or that speed limits should be so low (like Bermuda 35kmh) that it's almost impossible to be killed in an accident.

Perhaps reading about Self Regulation would remove the need for your cruise control and help broaden your horizons.



Nope...in a democratically elected government governed society there may be the initial 2 options...the third is revolution......

Large numbers of people are not speeding, that's my point. The speeders are relatively few. The majority are driving under the speed limit regardless what that limit is, be it 100, 80, 70 or 50km/h.

The speed of vehicles varies hugely on the unrestricted autobahn's of Germany where people can drive as they please. Few are going flat out or at very high speeds. The bigger issue there, is that Europeans are taught to drive properly and have to go through a much harder test to get their licence than here. The consequences of breaking the law and of having an accident are far more severe there, too. A higher standard all round!

Your "logical conclusion" to my post is rubbish.

[Edbear]

The best thing, IMHO, that the Govt. could do is to make it mandatory for all drivers/riders to be taught by a professional instructor and to take a Defensive Driving Course in order to get their licence.

Tourists should be able to produce a licence showing their experience and also pass a test before being allowed to drive here.

It won't cost us, as taxpayers, as it is user pays.

[scumdog]

Nope...in a democratically elected government governed society there may be the initial 2 options...the third is revolution......

C'mon, get real - this IS NZ - and this is a motorcyclists site.

Combine the two and you have a bunch that can't find their own arse with both hands, let alone organise a revolution!

[bluninja]

Large numbers of people are not speeding, that's my point. The speeders are relatively few. The majority are driving under the speed limit regardless what that limit is, be it 100, 80, 70 or 50km/h.

The speed of vehicles varies hugely on the unrestricted autobahn's of Germany where people can drive as they please. Few are going flat out or at very high speeds. The bigger issue there, is that Europeans are taught to drive properly and have to go through a much harder test to get their licence than here. The consequences of breaking the law and of having an accident are far more severe there, too. A higher standard all round!

Your "logical conclusion" to my post is rubbish.

These posts appear to show your ignorance and your inability to structure a reasoned thought out argument too well.

When you mean speeders do you mean people exceeding the posted speed limit? or people exceeding the speed for the conditions (road, weather, visibility, driving competence, vehicle)?

When the stats show that speed is a factor in a road traffic accident is it that they were travelling above the posted speed? or too fast for the prevailing conditions?

Did you know that the Autobahn has speed restrictions? It is only on sections (typically fairly straight, no steep inclines, no on or off ramps) where it is unrestricted, the rest are set at what is considered a more appropriate level.


So Europeans are taught to drive "properly" and have to go through much harder tests? Do you have any evidence for this incorrect generality?

Also do you have evidence for the more severe penalties for breaking traffic laws (I've presumed we weren't talking all laws)?

Having been trained and licensed in the UK for driving and riding and having driven and ridden around most of Europe I can say with a degree of confidence that you are incorrect in your assertions. The only thing (anecdotally) specific to the UK and breaking traffic law that is more severe is being caught when banned or without a license.....even then the guy (I knew) was caught twice whilst banned before he got jail time.

As for your "rubbish" claim....can you describe the flaw in the logic?

[Scuba_Steve]

The best thing, IMHO, that the Govt. could do is to make it mandatory for all drivers/riders to be taught by a professional instructor and to take a Defensive Driving Course in order to get their licence.

That's a load of crap, I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with training by professionals especially given what's being taught by the professionals doing the training currently... This is just a waste of money

All that needs to be done is a test that involves more than throwing $$$ at a company, a test which tests driving ability rather than financial status... You can either drive or not, who taught you is irrelevant & just because someones getting paid doesn't make them better

[Edbear]

These posts appear to show your ignorance and your inability to structure a reasoned thought out argument too well.

When you mean speeders do you mean people exceeding the posted speed limit? or people exceeding the speed for the conditions (road, weather, visibility, driving competence, vehicle)?

When the stats show that speed is a factor in a road traffic accident is it that they were travelling above the posted speed? or too fast for the prevailing conditions?

Did you know that the Autobahn has speed restrictions? It is only on sections (typically fairly straight, no steep inclines, no on or off ramps) where it is unrestricted, the rest are set at what is considered a more appropriate level.


So Europeans are taught to drive "properly" and have to go through much harder tests? Do you have any evidence for this incorrect generality?

Also do you have evidence for the more severe penalties for breaking traffic laws (I've presumed we weren't talking all laws)?

Having been trained and licensed in the UK for driving and riding and having driven and ridden around most of Europe I can say with a degree of confidence that you are incorrect in your assertions. The only thing (anecdotally) specific to the UK and breaking traffic law that is more severe is being caught when banned or without a license.....even then the guy (I knew) was caught twice whilst banned before he got jail time.

As for your "rubbish" claim....can you describe the flaw in the logic?

Sigh...

1/ That should be blindingly obvious from my post, since I was referring to all speed restrictions.

2/ Not necessarily either, obviously too fast for them to avoid the accident in any case.

3/ My Son-in-Law was brought up in Germany. Of course I know speed limits vary, who doesn't? What do you think of the various speed restrictions of other countries? You say a more realistic level than unlimited, yet you would seem to prefer being able to travel at whatever speed you personally want to, ie: unlimited by an authority.

4/ Are you serious? My comment was that many judge for themselves how competent they are and many are wrong.

[Edbear]

That's a load of crap, I'm not sure why people are so obsessed with training by professionals especially given what's being taught by the professionals doing the training currently... This is just a waste of money

All that needs to be done is a test that involves more than throwing $$$ at a company, a test which tests driving ability rather than financial status... You can either drive or not, who taught you is irrelevant & just because someones getting paid doesn't make them better

What is required to become a qualified professional driving instructor?

[bluninja]

Sigh...

1/ That should be blindingly obvious from my post, since I was referring to all speed restrictions.

2/ Not necessarily either, obviously too fast for them to avoid the accident in any case.

3/ My Son-in-Law was brought up in Germany. Of course I know speed limits vary, who doesn't? What do you think of the various speed restrictions of other countries? You say a more realistic level than unlimited, yet you would seem to prefer being able to travel at whatever speed you personally want to, ie: unlimited by an authority.

4/ Are you serious? My comment was that many judge for themselves how competent they are and many are wrong.

1) I asked for clarification. You've provided it. Thanks
2) Clearly you don't know what the stats are based on so your are waffling. Ministry of Transport defines as follows :- "Speed and crash risk
In this fact sheet speeding is defined as driving too fast for the conditions."
3a) You stated in the post that I responded to "The speed of vehicles varies hugely on the unrestricted autobahn's of Germany where people can drive as they please. " I inferred that "drive as they please" meant with regards to speed, rather than there were no traffic laws. However there is nothing in that post to indicate that you knew the autobahns had speed restrictions in places, rather it suggests that all the autobahn is unrestricted.
3b) nice try at grasping for the straw man argument but incorrect. I am for appropriate speed restrictions depending on the road and conditions.
4) You just made the point of a logical conclusion I made. If people judge for themselves how competent they are, and many are wrong, then it is a logical outcome (to reduce/stop road deaths) that we should prevent all from driving vehicles, or to restrict their maximum speed to a level that prevents death.

[bluninja]

What is required to become a qualified professional driving instructor?

Shifting the goal posts again...professional; someone who is paid.....qualified; officially recognised as being trained to perform a role.
It's possible to be qualified and amateur (ie not professional) such as IAM instructors/observers.

[SPman]

Also, IMO you can't cater to the lowest common denominator. You need to look at the average speed traveled and pick an 80th percentile. That is the safest speed limit.

The 80th percentile recommendation is based on no upper speed limit restrictions - it's pointless using an 80th percentile if the speed limit is 100, and basing it on those who exceed that limit as a percentage of total drivers. 2/3rds will always be below or at the limit!

[Brett]

Most "professional" driving tutors themselves can't drive for shit. To put in bluntly.

[Scuba_Steve]

What is required to become a qualified professional driving instructor?

Money of-course... to get an endorsement on your licence. There's not much to it, it's probably easier than getting your restricted nowadays in all honesty.

[Big Dog]

In the end, it is a fact of living in a society that we take the majority and/or authority view, and if you don't like it, you have two options. Break the rules and freely accept the consequences, or go and live somewhere else.

Or you can set about playing within the framework to change the rules.

Or impotently complain on the internet.


The rules are the rules and they are the only thing that allows a thin painted line to keep separate two vehicles with lethal force that are traveling in differing directions.


Stupid phone / Tapatalk, apologies in advance.