Annual road toll up 44

[FJRider]

As for the BMW stuff before, I know I'd feel safer riding near a nice and tidy BMW than a dented to fuck Commodore.

The sheer numbers of dented to fuck Commodores on the road ... makes it highly possible ... that's what will clobber you in your BMW.


Fasten your seat belt ...

[TheDemonLord]

Hmm, so where is the analysis of the NZ crashes showing what accidents were caused by driver error, those by vehicle failures and what injuries and fatalities were a direct result of a lack of side curtain airbags and such. Also for the age, does my old 88-97 model/generation vehicle that had a 4 star safety rating count as a clapped out heap of shit? What about the new great wall and Toyota 70 series that are only 2 and 3 star? Do they make it past your year cut off to be counted as safe or fall somewhere else?

I used overseas data, however because we don't produce any cars locally (all are designed and tested overseas) we can reliably use overseas data.

The point I am making here is that when we look at all the vehicles on the road - newer cars are safer than older cars - they stop quicker and are fitted with the latest and greatest safety features as standard.

What about the old fella that had the head on with the truck on SH1 on the 29th? If that was a medical problem where does the year of his car come into it? If it was medical was it hereditary or directly related to his age? Did he have massive head injuries from lack of an airbag, and if so, was he actually already dead from a heart attack before they happened anyway?

Assuming he was alive, then being in a newer car would have improved his chances of surviving.

Also do you have stats of 'educated' (what counts as educated? Uni grad? On job learning?) vs 'non educated' accidents, fatalities vs injury/nil?

Educated/above average IQ - I will concede here that the data I submitted to back up that point was probably biased.

I haven't even touched the surface . You can almost draw whatever numbers you want from data like that and present it as whatever you like.

So yeah, unless you've sat down with a calculator and spent a bit of time sifting through accurate data and compiled it correctly, you're drawing big conclusions on your bullet points no matter how you dress it.

As for the BMW stuff before, I know I'd feel safer riding near a nice and tidy BMW than a dented to fuck Commodore.

I am well aware of Stats and Correlation vs causation - but I have backed up my points with numbers - and there is a definite correlation between petrol price and road toll - we can infer a number of things from this correlation as likely explanations (no matter how un-PC they may be) and since it is something where it is almost impossible to do a control test for - inference from our data is all we have (as opposed to drawing big conclusions from thin air)

But I digress - if you wish to prove me wrong - present your own set of Data to negate that which I have stated, otherwise: My opinion backed up with relevant data > your opinion without any corroborating evidence

[R650R]

Anecdotally - some of the worst driving behaviour I have witnessed has come from people movers, fully laden

Perhaps its an inverted bell curve... cause a LOT of the worst driving I have seen has come from rich pricks in the latest SUV/HSV etc...

Of course that means all us 'middle class' (another misused term but a whole thread in itself...) keyboard warriors are the safest riders/drivers *said tongue in check while puking lol*

But who actually crashes, according to Rastus its average Joe ma and pa who didn't think their day was going to turn to shit. And from living near a busy T junction where there used to be a lot of crashes (traffic engineering/visibility fixed it) I have to agree with him. And they would prob be the largest single user road group and by default the most dangerous as there isn't enough credible data to break it down to per kim travelled etc....
BTW Sober drivers are by far THE MOST DANGEROUS road users out there, they cause 70% of all fatal and serious injury crashes.... drunk drivers (despisable as they may be) 'only' cause 30%....

You have to love statistics and pigeon holes.....

[FJRider]

Assuming he was alive, then being in a newer car would have improved his chances of surviving.

And if he wasn't .... staying at home would not have improved his chances of surviving ...

[FJRider]

But who actually crashes, according to Rastus its average Joe ma and pa who didn't think their day was going to turn to shit.

To add a twist to the statistics ...

It's who crashes and die ... that feature in the road death statistics ... who are not (always) those that caused the crash.

[R650R]

To add a twist to the statistics ...

It's who crashes and die ... that feature in the road death statistics ... who are not (always) those that caused the crash.

Yes.... so the fit people have more chance of surviving but tehn the fatties have extra padding.... maybe it all evens out

[Brett]

Just got back from driving Auckland to Paihia in the Bay of Islands and back. The state of the driving was absolutely shocking. Drivers going 30-50kph consistently in a 100kph zone, people following each other like sheep, sitting in a line all going 80kph and then speeding up AS A BLOODY LINE to 110kph on the over taking lanes only to drop back to 75/80kph collectively. I have driven in a lot of countries and NZ is undoubtedly the worst. Our drivers are so incredibly unskilled and ignorant it is unbelievable. Very few appeared to be "immigrants" or "tourists" either.

Only saw two speed camera's and two patrol cars. Both on overtaking lanes or nice, safe, long straights. I have never been more convinced that the "Speed Kills" campaign is an absolute rort to bring in revenue. If the powers that be actually gave two shits about people's safety, they would actively crack down on this sort of incompetent driving.

[FJRider]

Yes.... so the fit people have more chance of surviving but tehn the fatties have extra padding.... maybe it all evens out

I'm not fat ... So I'm at more risk ... ????

My thinking is it's not those at greater risk that (should) feature in road deaths reports/statistics ... but those that put themselves at risk.

Also ... There is the smug complacency of some ... that if you are under the posted speed limit and obeying all/most/some of the other road rules ... you can relax and still be safe.

[AllanB]

Plenty wank on here about rider training (a good idea) but anyone with a licence should have to complete some form of refresher training course every X years - shit I'd probably fail it was almost 34 years ago I got my license and I've not had to do any refresher since. I still get confused over that change to give way - top of the T or some shit except in roundies. I fail to see how hard GIVE WAY TO YOUR RIGHT was!!!!!!!!!

[pritch]

Educated/above average IQ - I will concede here that the data I submitted to back up that point was probably biased.

To equate IQ with driving ability is ludicrous. At one stage I was considering writing a piece for the AA mag about the crazy stuff I'd seen and heard from drivers most of whom had degrees. This could potentially have landed me in trouble as these drivers worked in the same place as I did so discretion was deemed advisable.

Believe me a degree is no indication of driving ability.

[AllanB]

Believe me degree ia no indication of driving ability.

Yeah I reckon that Hawkins guy would drive like shit!

A degree is often referred to by the holder as something that make one better than a non holder. Crap.

[R650R]

Plenty wank on here about rider training (a good idea) but anyone with a licence should have to complete some form of refresher training course every X years - shit I'd probably fail it was almost 34 years ago I got my license and I've not had to do any refresher since. I still get confused over that change to give way - top of the T or some shit except in roundies. I fail to see how hard GIVE WAY TO YOUR RIGHT was!!!!!!!!!

Every ride is a fucking refresher course in safety, every intersection and overtake is the ultimate bloody test. its either something you understand or you don't...
You don't need some glorified certificate to post on your wall to stop from crashing.

I've done forklift 'refresher' courses several times, zero impact on real world use of said device except now I know its a good legal move to go off to the smoko room if someone is going to do dumb shit as if you watch and laugh your just as liable under osh law....

[R650R]

To equate IQ with driving ability is ludicrous. At one stage I was considering writing a piece for the AA mag about the crazy stuff I'd seen and heard from drivers most of whom had degrees. This could potentially have landed me in trouble as these drivers worked in the same place as I did so discretion was deemed advisable.

Believe me degree ia no indication of driving ability.

EEewwww an AA writer, how could you live with yourself. The utter shite they print in that holiday sales brochure masquerading as a motorists rights publication..... *puke*

[Tazz]

I used overseas data, however because we don't produce any cars locally (all are designed and tested overseas) we can reliably use overseas data.

The point I am making here is that when we look at all the vehicles on the road - newer cars are safer than older cars - they stop quicker and are fitted with the latest and greatest safety features as standard.



Assuming he was alive, then being in a newer car would have improved his chances of surviving.



Educated/above average IQ - I will concede here that the data I submitted to back up that point was probably biased.



I am well aware of Stats and Correlation vs causation - but I have backed up my points with numbers - and there is a definite correlation between petrol price and road toll - we can infer a number of things from this correlation as likely explanations (no matter how un-PC they may be) and since it is something where it is almost impossible to do a control test for - inference from our data is all we have (as opposed to drawing big conclusions from thin air)

But I digress - if you wish to prove me wrong - present your own set of Data to negate that which I have stated, otherwise: My opinion backed up with relevant data > your opinion without any corroborating evidence

You've done exactly what I said was easy to do and grabbed a bunch of stats and thrown it at whatever is convenient for what you're trying to say at the time I'm still at work so I'll chew through it a bit better when I have more than a few mins to glace and chug coffee, but I didn't see anything there for the stats for NZ last year (nevermind fuck knows where you'd find half the details you need to draw informed conclusions).

I'm not saying newer cars are not by in large safer, just that it is not as simple as drawing a line in the sand and saying that you are 100% better driving/riding this or that when every situation/accident is different.
A guy I went to school with blacked out (kidney trouble or something) and took out a kid on a bike. His age, car year, location, speed, breakfast, fart scent all become numbers for people to draw on in which ever way suits.

It was a fatality, he was under 20, boom, in with the under 20's for dangerous driving.
His car was a 2003 or whatever, pow maybe the kid would have survived if it was a 2013
It was in the same suburb as a knarly intersection, shizaamm lumped in with that
He had bacon for breakfast, kaplowser if he was a Jew and just ate the eggs he would have been on the road sooner missed the kid altogether.

[AllanB]

Every ride is a fucking refresher course in safety, every intersection and overtake is the ultimate bloody test. its either something you understand or you don't...
You don't need some glorified certificate to post on your wall to stop from crashing.
.

Yeah - funny riding the same places for 36 years - you shoot around corners where 25 years back you'd pass a car - but now on a much better bike I'd not even consider it.

I do feel you may have missed my point re updating licenses or even skills - bad habits creep in, laws change and a refresher may help.

In the States they run a system of if you are ticketed X times they send you on a course. No idea how it works but if they had something here - $150 ticket for your offense or sit a Sat morning course (that you must pass so you can't just fuck around) what would you pick?