Learning to ride on gravel/dirt

[MarkH]

I've been riding on sealed roads so long that I've had to learn and practise the very different way of riding a bike on lower traction surfaces.

Some thoughts after 600+kms in 2 days with a lot of it over gravel roads:
Riding all around the Coromandel peninsular including Port Charles/Shelly Beach and Port Jackon/Fletcher Bay (camped overnight at DOC campsite at Fletcher Bay) I have now become quite a bit more comfortable with gravel riding. It is definitely a bit different to riding on a sealed road as far as cornering technique goes, so racking up a bunch of kms was definitely a good idea to get the hang of it.
I did find that weighting the outside peg (like taught in the NGARNZ training day) made pretty much no difference, just making sure I leant my body weight out while leaning the bike in made all the difference in the world for getting the bike to go around corners easily.
It seems to me that brakes, throttle & clutch combined with body positioning are the key things to master for off-road riding, peg weighting seems to be very little or no importance (definitely more useful to concentrate on the other stuff first) except where it helps to get your body weight leant the right way.
This weekend should be good for gaining a lot more experience with off-road track riding.
Hopefully not too much extra experience in picking up the bike though!

If I have grasped the concept correctly the idea with your body position is to keep yourself as upright as possible while the bike is leant into corners.
i.e. Lean back going downhill, lean forward going uphill, lean out on corners while pushing the bike into the corners.
This certainly seems to work well in practise with the bike going around a corner much easier when making the bike lean in while I lean my body weight out from the bike.
On the road you can corner faster by leaning in on corners but on loose surfaces there isn't the lateral grip and the bike would slide out very easily using that road riding technique.
Even when sitting on the seat riding on faster gravel roads I found that shifting my bum and leaning out on the corners helped heaps.

One thing that irks me a little is when I keep reading about how standing on the pegs lowers the CoG (or CoM), WTH?
Clearly standing up will raise the CoG, this should be obvious at a glance.
Obviously standing up on the pegs DOES gain significant advantages in how quickly and easily you can move your body weight around as well as letting your legs act as shock absorbers over rough terrain. This is the true advantage of standing on the pegs instead of sitting on the seat.

I've got a lot to learn and I look forward to coming to grips with this new (to me) type of riding!

[gwynfryn]

When you are sitting most weight is on the seat which is higher than the pegs. When you are standing weight is on the pegs which is lower than the seat. The bikes cog is lower.
The main advantage of standing is that the bike can move freely around under you.
You gain traction/drive by really weighting the pegs ,forcing the outside peg down when cornering.
And you can easily get weight over the front .
If you have to sit down sit as far forward as you can and keep your elbows up.

I never sit when riding off road but thats different to riding on gravel.
Spend some time riding off road and riding on gravel will seem very easy.

[Akzle]

i had to unlearn most of that shit going from more-gravel to road-riding.

as pointed out, if the main of your weight is on your arse, putting a bit of thigh muscle into your peg wont do much.

also, dangle your inside leg.

[Night Falcon]

You will discover the benefits of weighting your pegs once you get better at weighting your pegs - and the best way to do that is standing on them. Takes time to learn how to move a bike around on loose surfaces especially at speed....I'm still learning after 30yrs of riding mostly off road.

[Woodman]

my 2 cents.

I weight the inside peg or lean into corners, weighting the inside edge of the seat on gravel. Works real good, and seems more in control to me.

Same with standing, weight the inside peg.

[clint640]

When you are sitting most weight is on the seat which is higher than the pegs. When you are standing weight is on the pegs which is lower than the seat. The bikes cog is lower.
.

[ENGINEER_NERD] When you stand up the CoG of the bike/rider combo gets higher sorry. [/ENGINEER NERD] This is not so relevant though as by standing you can move your weight around more & make the bike go where you want it to much easier.

also, dangle your inside leg.

Don't 'dangle it' You just look like a dick. If you feel the need to stick a leg out, which should really only be on tight, slow turns or when doing big drifts, thrust that appendage as far forward as you can, you want your toe next to your front axle. Put your race face on, get your head over the bars, get your balls on the gas cap & keep your elbows up. It's all about getting weight over the front for sharp turns.

Cheers
Clint

[MarkH]

[ENGINEER_NERD]This is not so relevant though as by standing you can move your weight around more & make the bike go where you want it to much easier.

I think this is exactly why standing helps so much.
Everyone know standing makes it easier to get the bike to do stuff, but many wrongly attribute it to the lowering of the CoG where it is actually due to freeing up the rider to move his/her weight around more and create some independence of movement compared to the bike.
Of course doing the right things for the wrong reasons still works to give the desired result, but I'm the sort of person that likes to understand what is happing and why it is happening.

Oh well, heading down to Taumarunui soon, I guess I'll see several of you guys down there.

[gwynfryn]

[ENGINEER_NERD] When you stand up the CoG of the bike/rider combo gets higher sorry. [/ENGINEER NERD] This is not so relevant though as by standing you can move your weight around more & make the bike go where you want it to much easier.



Don't 'dangle it' You just look like a dick. If you feel the need to stick a leg out, which should really only be on tight, slow turns or when doing big drifts, thrust that appendage as far forward as you can, you want your toe next to your front axle. Put your race face on, get your head over the bars, get your balls on the gas cap & keep your elbows up. It's all about getting weight over the front for sharp turns.

Cheers
Clint

Thats why I said the bikes CoG not bike/rider.
Try riding full lock circles sitting down compared standing up.

[Padmei]

The most important factor on cornering well on gravel is balls - the bigger the better.

[Waihou Thumper]

Are we trying to slide, or look like a Dakar rider or drift?
I guess it is like riding on any surface? Ride at what you are comfortable with.
There are always going to be better riders than you, so just ride to the conditions of the road.

If it is very twisty, marbles and a real struggle to stay straight aka south island somewhere
slow down, Nope, go faster, that seems to work....

Or, if you see a great big dust cloud ahead, this means the rider is balls out and it is a nice bit of straight road....aka south Island and the Waikato

What gets me and most is the off camber at corners....Nowt you can do about that!

[Padmei]

What gets me and most is the off camber at corners....Nowt you can do about that!

Yes exactly that's where balls come into it. The Taranaki hard core crew have that covered.

[george formby]

What gets me and most is the off camber at corners....Nowt you can do about that!

LOL. The place where practice pays off. For some bizarre reason I ride a fair bit of gravel on my T30 road rubber attired TDM, the only lard arse I ride.
Body position, counter balancing, throttle control & confidence in physics is the be all and end all. At times I'm climbing around the bike like a monkey, deep gravel is the worst, it just plows.
Weight forward, weight out, throttle on, destination in sight.
The TDM is to heavy for foot out shenanigans, most adventure bikes are, so I stand up & control traction with my body weight. More effective & easier to hang outside the turn & keep a steady throttle.
T'was not that long ago OP that I was crapping myself on the loose despite a trail riding back ground. Good on ya.
To improve my ability I've decided to cheat & bought a trials bike. Hardest thing I've ever tried to ride properly but the techniques translate automatically to my other bikes.

[Tazz]

For just run of the mill gravel roads I find it way easier to just sit.
Im still learning, and on a lighter bike, but when I try and slide standing it all turns to shit quicker. Much faster sitting.

No arguing over rough stuff is better standing. It's like having an extra set of suspenders
I find I just hover where I need to rather than skyscraper it though, but I think that's partly due to just being used to my bars being swept back so their hard to position over.

[Box'a'bits]

For just run of the mill gravel roads I find it way easier to just sit.
Im still learning, and on a lighter bike, but when I try and slide standing it all turns to shit quicker. Much faster sitting.

No arguing over rough stuff is better standing. It's like having an extra set of suspenders
I find I just hover where I need to rather than skyscraper it though, but I think that's partly due to just being used to my bars being swept back so their hard to position over.

And that's the next lesson. Setting up the bikes ergonomics properly. There is a compromise between sitting & standing. Gus's stance is weighted (get it?) to towards standing...

[Tazz]

And that's the next lesson. Setting up the bikes ergonomics properly. There is a compromise between sitting & standing. Gus's stance is weighted (get it?) to towards standing...

Too right. Have to say though I never get tired or sore arms when chewing the road (or off road really) miles partly because of em. Will have to ask Peetey what bars they are one day.
On the flip side to being a bit awkward standing sometimes, particularly moderate uphills, they make really steep downhills an absolute breeze.