Space travel - EM propulsion breakthrough

[Winston001]

This is just weird. Electromagnetic propulsion from microwaves inside a cone. It violates the laws of physics and shouldn't work but...yeah.

The working theory (as best I can make out) is the microwaves use vacuum energy which is a quantum state, but frankly that's the equivalent of saying its magic.


http://io9.com/new-test-suggests-nas...ork-1701188933

[bogan]

I think the violation of the laws of physics is just a media sploosh. Obviously some smart bugger has a theory grounded in quantum physics as to why it should work.

It's cool though, wonder what the energy to thrust ratio is like.

[Winston001]

Pretty good thrust apparently but not yet. In theory it could produce 30kN/kW which means a kitchen microwave could move a car. Maybe.

But the violation of classical physics is real enough. Action and reaction. Normally a rocket engine spits out high energy (flames/particles) in one direction and the rocket travels in the opposite direction.

In this EM thing, all the energy is contained within a cone - nothing is spat out. Nevertheless a force acts on the wide end and pushes the cone forward. It harnesses vacuum energy - quantum stuff = magic.

Damn I hope this doesn't go the way of cold fusion.

[Mike.Gayner]

Obviously it doesnt breach the laws of physics, it just acts in a way that we don't fully understand. To describe something which doesn't follow classical mechanics as "breaking the laws of physics" is a bit stupid seeing as classical mechanics is known to be an incomplete theory.

[unstuck]

Been around for millions of years, it is just that most people do not understand who and what they are.

[TheDemonLord]

I think the violation of the laws of physics is just a media sploosh. Obviously some smart bugger has a theory grounded in quantum physics as to why it should work.

It's cool though, wonder what the energy to thrust ratio is like.

or we have discovered something our current model of physics doesn't account for....

[bogan]

Pretty good thrust apparently but not yet. In theory it could produce 30kN/kW which means a kitchen microwave could move a car. Maybe.

But the violation of classical physics is real enough. Action and reaction. Normally a rocket engine spits out high energy (flames/particles) in one direction and the rocket travels in the opposite direction.

In this EM thing, all the energy is contained within a cone - nothing is spat out. Nevertheless a force acts on the wide end and pushes the cone forward. It harnesses vacuum energy - quantum stuff = magic.

Damn I hope this doesn't go the way of cold fusion.

Makes me think of this stuff...

http://honorverse.wikia.com/wiki/Impeller_drive

Doesn't have to spit out anything if it can find purchase in the void.

[R650R]

From JSF
"China definitely invented impulse drive, and Nasa may have come up with warp drive.
I have read up on the reports and discarded the disinfo and fluff. Here is the skinny:

By taking a standard microwave oven magnetron and placing it in a cone shaped metallic structure, the Chinese, beyond a doubt, have come up with an impulse drive that could, if powered by a nuclear reactor (obviously with a much larger magnetron) get a large spacecraft to Mars in less than a week, as it is RIGHT NOW. There is a lot of fluff trying to cover this up by quoting only thrust levels from Nasa's far less successful efforts that would get to mars in 90 days.

It would be able to do it with only nuclear fuel, with absolutely nothing expelled from the spacecraft. The only limit to travel would be how long the reactor and thruster lasted. This system could get to the nearest star (other than the sun) in about 8 years, AS IT IS NOW, not the 90 years Nasa quoted.



To compliment this, Nasa probably has the beginnings of warp drive
Nasa scientists have noted a temporal distortion in front of one of their latest projects (which appears as a mirage effect) that is 40 times in excess of what the input power could account for in terms of a distortion created by a mirage due to heating of the air. They are guessing it is a real compression of space / time. The power levels they are using are so low that scaling them up to something useful would be easy. They will be testing this in a vacuum, where if the mirage effect still appears will prove it really does work. This, if successfully coupled to the already proven successful and fully explainable testable and observable chinese "impulse drive" would make star trek like space travel a reality, with the impulse engines providing the velocity needed to make a warp bubble useful.

You sort of have to be a trekkie to know what I am talking about with regard to a warp bubble . . . . .

At any rate, it will all be good if it worked, ONLY IF the "elite" could avoid being the destroying aliens on independence day. Don't hold your breath for hope, I really do think they are that bad. We'd be galactic parasites if not full blown terrorists if they found a way to make it happen.

How fast is the speed of light? Actually, not very fast. With a standard acceleration of 32 feet per second (1 g) you would hit the speed of light in less than a year. Any real thruster technology would do that with ease. The Chinese impulse drive will probably eventually hit that level with refinements. The thrust is real already, not just a fringe effect with theoretical hopes.

Speed of light at 1g: 32x3600x24x365/5280 = 191,127 miles/second with 1 year of acceleration. Speed of light = 186,000 miles / second. Even impulse drive would be super useful at 1 g, Alpha Centauri, fully parked, in 5.5 years!"

[Tazz]

Probably won't see anything of consequence from it in our lifetime sadly, but fawking awesome none the less!

or we have discovered something our current model of physics doesn't account for....

Queue portals to parallel dimensions!

[Swoop]

http://www.redorbit.com/news/space/1...-drive-050115/

[Flip]

Just like cold fusion........

It's in the internet so it must be true.

Meanwhile monkeys fly out my butt.

[Winston001]

Obviously it doesnt breach the laws of physics, it just acts in a way that we don't fully understand. To describe something which doesn't follow classical mechanics as "breaking the laws of physics" is a bit stupid seeing as classical mechanics is known to be an incomplete theory.

True.

The thing is, the EM shouldn't work at all. Quantum mechanics doesn't explain it - yet.

The theory is that somehow the microwave energy impels vacuum energy to push the cone away but the theory isn't proven. Its never been seen before.

Of course what will happen now is an obscure paper by a Bulgarian or Russian scientist in the '60s will be discovered predicting this.

[Winston001]

From JSF
"China definitely invented impulse drive, and Nasa may have come up with warp drive.
I have read up on the reports and discarded the disinfo and fluff. Here is the skinny:

By taking a standard microwave oven magnetron and placing it in a cone shaped metallic structure, the Chinese, beyond a doubt, have come up with an impulse drive that could, if powered by a nuclear reactor (obviously with a much larger magnetron) get a large spacecraft to Mars in less than a week, as it is RIGHT NOW. There is a lot of fluff trying to cover this up by quoting only thrust levels from Nasa's far less successful efforts that would get to mars in 90 days.

It would be able to do it with only nuclear fuel, with absolutely nothing expelled from the spacecraft. The only limit to travel would be how long the reactor and thruster lasted. This system could get to the nearest star (other than the sun) in about 8 years, AS IT IS NOW, not the 90 years Nasa quoted.



To compliment this, Nasa probably has the beginnings of warp drive
Nasa scientists have noted a temporal distortion in front of one of their latest projects (which appears as a mirage effect) that is 40 times in excess of what the input power could account for in terms of a distortion created by a mirage due to heating of the air. They are guessing it is a real compression of space / time. The power levels they are using are so low that scaling them up to something useful would be easy. They will be testing this in a vacuum, where if the mirage effect still appears will prove it really does work. This, if successfully coupled to the already proven successful and fully explainable testable and observable chinese "impulse drive" would make star trek like space travel a reality, with the impulse engines providing the velocity needed to make a warp bubble useful.

You sort of have to be a trekkie to know what I am talking about with regard to a warp bubble . . . . .

At any rate, it will all be good if it worked, ONLY IF the "elite" could avoid being the destroying aliens on independence day. Don't hold your breath for hope, I really do think they are that bad. We'd be galactic parasites if not full blown terrorists if they found a way to make it happen.

How fast is the speed of light? Actually, not very fast. With a standard acceleration of 32 feet per second (1 g) you would hit the speed of light in less than a year. Any real thruster technology would do that with ease. The Chinese impulse drive will probably eventually hit that level with refinements. The thrust is real already, not just a fringe effect with theoretical hopes.

Speed of light at 1g: 32x3600x24x365/5280 = 191,127 miles/second with 1 year of acceleration. Speed of light = 186,000 miles / second. Even impulse drive would be super useful at 1 g, Alpha Centauri, fully parked, in 5.5 years!"

Good find.

One possibility is that space/time in front of the pointy end of the cone is compressed (warped) which allows the cone to move vast distances in space. Lightspeed isn't broken - instead the cone moves to a different point in space.

Who knows. Humans might not be able to live around the cone. Interesting stuff.

[mossy1200]

Eventually someone will find a way or blow up earth trying.

My theory is black holes were created by human like species fiddling with shit all over the universe.

[Laava]

So, this is similar to the old, "bumblebees can't technically fly but cos they don't know it, they just go ahead anyway" story?