Flag?

[Latte]

We need to spend millions on a new flag to supposedly reflect our identity (when the majority don't have any problem with the present one)... but we'll still keep spending millions on royal visits too and keep the Queen as our head of state.

If it's going to be anything else it should be the original flag Aotearoa had back in 1835:


But that would cause too much butthurt to many Pakeha.

Looks like the St George cross with some stars added, seems more "Mother England" than what we have already.

[Ocean1]

Quite like this Idea. Simple effective, Blue of the sea, our fern, Southern cross on the black we seem to have inherited/choosen as our colour, modern, everlasting. Done

Best one so far....

I reckon, be an excellent choice.

[Gadget1]

My point is ... the Government does needs to say anything at all. And can change it (or not) with no public imput/say at all.

And any result from referendums is not binding.

This one is a binding referendum, ie: it's going though a legal process. You're right though, the Government could change the flag without consultation. So why's it happening and $26 million wtf?

[PrincessBandit]

This one is a binding referendum, ie: it's going though a legal process. You're right though, the Government could change the flag without consultation. So why's it happening and $26 million wtf?

The thing is, the government will only listen to a referendum and be seen to be acting on the result if it suits them. Even if the overwhelming response is "no, leave it as it is, we the majority (who bothered having our say) want to keep the existing flag" the govt will still give the royal one finger salute and change it anyway, if that's what they want to do.

[Smifffy]

There's a saying that kiwi voters don't vote new governments in, they vote old governments out. It looks to be much the same with this flag debate. It's not like there is a flag that a clear majority like and use, that has become a de-facto flag and is being considered to replace the current one.

It's more like "Ah I feel like it's time for a change - let's get a few quotes from some graphic designers and a couple of kindergartens and see what we can come up with"

[Banditbandit]

The government will say the public referendum was the required "consultation" and then push it through under urgency on the basis that the "Canadians" changed theirs without majority support.

My point is ... the Government does needs to say anything at all. And can change it (or not) with no public imput/say at all.

And any result from referendums is not binding.

The thing is, the government will only listen to a referendum and be seen to be acting on the result if it suits them. Even if the overwhelming response is "no, leave it as it is, we the majority (who bothered having our say) want to keep the existing flag" the govt will still give the royal one finger salute and change it anyway, if that's what they want to do.

This is a BINDING referendum - see the legislation ...

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/..._25_h&p=1&sr=1

[PrincessBandit]

This is a BINDING referendum - see the legislation ...

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/bill/..._25_h&p=1&sr=1

Hmmmm, yeah, we'll see... If it's not the answer they're looking for, they'll keep at it until they get the one they want Maybe not next year, or the year after, but it will come up again; you can count on that!

[Swoop]

At the end of the day TPTB use the term binding referendum

This is a "binding" one, as they ALL are.

The bureaucrats bind up the public and then fuck them over. BDSM really. The winners: politicians who will have to travel far and wide to promote the new branding.




Reckless' example image (censored) is rather nice.

[gjm]

It's a complete and utter waste of money, money that could be much better spent on something useful.

John Key wants a legacy. Something he can talk about as guest speaker ($100k per dinner) when he's moved (back) to the US.

Nie to see Part 1, Clause 3 privides for a decision as to whether we actually want a new flag or not. My understanding was that the first referendum was to choose which new flag you wanted, not if you wanted a new flag? Political manipulation at it's most obvious.

[98tls]

It's a complete and utter waste of money, money that could be much better spent on something useful.

John Key wants a legacy. Something he can talk about as guest speaker ($100k per dinner) when he's moved (back) to the US.

Nie to see Part 1, Clause 3 privides for a decision as to whether we actually want a new flag or not. My understanding was that the first referendum was to choose which new flag you wanted, not if you wanted a new flag? Political manipulation at it's most obvious.

Still its a bit cheaper than Clarkes legacy.

[FJRider]

This is a BINDING referendum - see the legislation ...

The Bill you posted a link to .. has passed it's first reading. Plenty more hoops for the Government to jump through before it becomes Legislation.

And plenty of "Opt out" options for Government if it is passed.

Although a referendum may carry great political weight ... and a government may choose to act on the basis of the results obtained ... such results are non-binding in the absence of legislation (requiring a government to act on the basis of the results obtained). In the absence of binding legislation ... the citizens of this country would not be entitled to a legal remedy in the event of non-compliance with the results. If a government was to hold a referendum and then ignore the results ... the remedy would be in the political and not the legal arena.

[gjm]

... the citizens of this country would not be entitled to a legal remedy in the event of non-compliance with the results. If a government was to hold a referendum and then ignore the results ... the remedy would be in the political and not the legal arena.

Which basically means the government can do whatever they like in regard to this, including spending $6 of every single forum member's money on something pointless.

It's a distraction, for heaven's sake. While we bicker about this (and $26m is pocket change to the National party) they're selling NZ overseas before, like the rats they are, leaving a sinking ship.

[Smifffy]

"I have no intention of placing my fate in the hands of men whose only qualification is that they managed to con a block of people to vote for them.”
― Mario Puzo, The Godfather

[pete376403]

Still its a bit cheaper than Clarkes legacy.

What was that?

[Akzle]

ill just point out, as i did in the last flag thred, that the government is defacto and unlawful, the ENSIGN used as and commonly miscalled 'flag', is similarly.
Only one flag has received royal assent.
A referendum on such a matter may legalise/legitimise an otherwise unlawful institution.
Damn crown jews.