Kiwibiker on TV1 SCU?

[nodrog:Me]

Re watched the programme, can clearly identify who the riders partner is (if you know him) SCU summary is that it was rider era and the rider pled guilty to careless driving causing injury, disqualified for 6 months and ordered to pay $735 compensation.

was it the guy Andy off little Britain?

[Reckless]

Had a Yamaha XJ650 some years ago.
Sidestand was left down and the next left hander it wasn't about to flick back up in a hurry.
It dug in and stayed dug in and therefore i was having to head for wrong side of the road to cut some speed off.
Run out of time to do that before a car came and i hit the back half of it. Fortunately i came out of that ok but it does show you how easy it can be done.
These days of coarse they won't start if it's down. Thanks God for that!

Well that certainly backs up the side stand theory? Cant quite see how, but if it happened, it happened.
If she was caught in that scenario with the unfortunate timing of a car coming towards her and unable to lean to the left, that sucks.
Might have been a better option to hit the bank (or put the stand up) but hindsight is 20/20 aye.
I've had a couple of prangs over the years and if I woulda, shoulda, coulda I prob wouldnt have had some of them either LOL.

The moari comments on this thread are uncalled for I do agree she milked it a bit. Although the editing didnt help to create TV drama.

Re watched the programme, can clearly identify who the riders partner is (if you know him) SCU summary is that it was rider era and the rider pled guilty to careless driving causing injury, disqualified for 6 months and ordered to pay $735 compensation.

Now that would really suck after all the pain and recovery shes gone through if the above is correct?

[sidecar bob]

The politically correct term is Taniwha Tax.



Sweet I'll inform the superbike riders. They should save some money, and Maybe it will stop them asking for 10 Warmup laps at the nationals.

I told your cop mate Tim that if thats the case he should Email the McLaren F1 team & tell them ive got some old 155 13's off a Hillman Avenger they could use to save a few bucks, because apparently all tyres have the same grip.

[Mom]

Now that would really suck after all the pain and recovery shes gone through if the above is correct?

One of my "other" children lost control of her car in the Dome Valley on one of the most notorious corners. Smashed through the armco and rolled off the road. Totally her fault, speed, inexperience etc. She luckily was not badly injured but, she was also charged with careless driving causing injury. Disqualification and a large fine. Cost her dearly. Could not get insurance cover for many years (not even 3rd party). It is something of a standard charge even if no other vehicles are involved.

Tough charge to accept at any time.

[Reckless]

One of my "other" children lost control of her car in the Dome Valley on one of the most notorious corners. Smashed through the armco and rolled off the road. Totally her fault, speed, inexperience etc. She luckily was not badly injured but, she was also charged with careless driving causing injury. Disqualification and a large fine. Cost her dearly. Could not get insurance cover for many years (not even 3rd party). It is something of a standard charge even if no other vehicles are involved.

Tough charge to accept at any time.

My sisters husband ran off the road early one morning and rolled the 4x4. No other car involved, no speed, no drink.
Concentration or inattention he admits. Luckily their 4 kids where not in the car
They are still recovering a year later. She still cant drive because of her back and they took his licence of him for 6 months and a biggish fine on a similar charge leaving them car-less. As if he meant to hurt his missus FFS. Really hard get to their medical appointments etc.
In saying that they are still forging ahead as they can but Talk about the traffic charges causing extra undue hardship to the family?
Sometimes there is such a thing as an accident (even if it was his fault) and the ongoing consequences of such are punishment enough I reckon.

[FROSTY:Me]

Its a one size fits all system. Their skid to stop calculations are also a based on fixed maths. Apparently all tyres have tha same grip.
Id hate to sound presumptuous, but within five minutes of the programme starting I had worked out what had happened & why.

Holey cow it took you THAT LONG???
I saw it was a hornet 250,saw the situation and thought. Went a bit wide-target fixated on the car - bang.
Its exactly what ride instructors go on and on and on about with newer riders.
Given the rider is now ok I'd be interested to find out their ride experience level at the time of accident.

The "rider has two bikes" thing was IMO a red herring.-Hornet/cb250 in my mind are basicly the same thing.
The comment that the stand fell down just doesn't wash. even springless the stand wont rotate to the forward/locked position on a 250 hornet.
Re BMW VS 250 hornet. I bet any amount of money a lil lightweight 250 hornet will be a tonne easier to get around a 50/km/h corner than a big ol bimmer.

[TheDemonLord]

The comment that the stand fell down just doesn't wash. even springless the stand wont rotate to the forward/locked position on a 250 hornet.
Re BMW VS 250 hornet. I bet any amount of money a lil lightweight 250 hornet will be a tonne easier to get around a 50/km/h corner than a big ol bimmer.

Especially since Hornet take big bike grippy and expensive tyres

[FROSTY:Me]

Had a Yamaha XJ650 some years ago.
Sidestand was left down and the next left hander it wasn't about to flick back up in a hurry.
It dug in and stayed dug in and therefore i was having to head for wrong side of the road to cut some speed off.
Run out of time to do that before a car came and i hit the back half of it. Fortunately i came out of that ok but it does show you how easy it can be done.
These days of coarse they won't start if it's down. Thanks God for that!

mate--BIG difference between stand left down and locked-ie against the front stop and springs pulling it into place and stand "falling down" whilst riding. even if the springs popped off. The rider was going forwards at 70km/h. the stand would be dragging backwards.
The other side of the stand down thing is the cut out doesn't work with a stand dragging--only near to properly down
also the rider could have gone back to correct side of the road with no power.

[400sm]

It just goes to show that a relatively small rider error can have grave consequences.

If there were no vehicle coming towards her, the rider would have got away with it.
Unfortunately there was a "cager" (KBer talk for car+driver) on the road that caused the accident! (according to some posts on here)

Lucky it was not a truck!

The side-stand issue is a fantasy. (well covered by previous posters)

The "vanishing point" and "line" dogma that are espoused by the "KB intelligentsia" are flawed and could well have contributed to this incident.
(I am on the record criticizing these theories, in previous years)
I am sure the rider in question would have been a True Believer.


So to sum up, in KB style:

Clearly the Maori Cager is to blame.
The Pommy police are wrong.
The Judge is wrong and panders to minorities.
TV1 is biased against motorcycles.
KB Riders are The Shit.

;-)

[Banditbandit]

My only issue with this theory was wouldn't the forward momentum of the motorcycle push the side stand back up? Even if the spring on the stand caused the stand to drop down, it should just freely drag along the road rather than lock in a forward facing position and dig in?

Agree, would only dig in if it miraculously sprung forward/locked and thus, stalling the motor.....it could happen

Surprisingly enough - this is not the case.

I had a bike come around, what was for them a left hand corner, clearly not handling the corner at all. I pulled the car well left, and I could see the side-stand was down, but the bike still went wide, swiped the front right panel and slide all the way along the driver side of the car - it was an MG B - and the wheel spinners messed up the bike's engine cases something shocking. Lucky it was a big IL4 or the spinners would have messed up the rider's leg too.

Now, this was on an older bike (happened late 80s) without a side-stand cutout switch.

So, no. The forward momentum of a bike will not necessarily push the side-stand up. If you think about the arc the stand travels through to retract, then the widest point of the arc it needs to travel to retract will be below the level of the road surface. The road surface itself stops the stand retracting

As for it dropping down and cutting the engine ?? No - that would seem extremely unlikely .. it wold have an incredibly ineffectual spring, which would not allow it to retract fully in the first place. It would be visibly down and unsafe to ride the bike ..

Dropping down and locking into place as above? No chance. It would have to be pushed forward, beyond the botom of the arc. A spring too weak to hold the stand up would be too weak to push it into forward lock position.

[Swoop]

Id hate to sound presumptuous, but within five minutes of the programme starting I had worked out what had happened & why.

The Butler, in the library, with the candlestick holder?

[Reckless]

Dropping down and locking into place as above? No chance. It would have to be pushed forward, beyond the botom of the arc. A spring too weak to hold the stand up would be too weak to push it into forward lock position.

Couple different posts now supporting the Stand not folding back up even at 70k or more!
So lets run with it Just like SCU have with their theory??

The stand spring breaks or falls off.
Side stand is hanging down on the left
The rider brakes for the 55k corner and G forces pivot the stand to a forward position (enough to cause a problem)
Rider dumps the bike over onto the corner
Enough cornering force is applied to prevent the stand rotating over the higher axis required to retract it (as evidenced by rider posts here)
Road is there by gouged until said rider lifts the angle and heads for the other side of the road.
Then I'm afraid it is target fixation and panic.

But the cause of the accident is vehicle failure not rider error and therefore fines and suspension of licence should not have been laid.

The above entirely possible given the evidence on the road and logic applied during the SCU program to their scenario.

What say you???

[Katman]

What say you???

I say bullshit.

[nodrog:Me]

I say bullshit.

A side stand just bounces merrily along the road when the spring breaks.

And it certainly wouldn't have enough weight behind it to gouge a massive groove in the road.

[Mike.Gayner]

A side stand just bounces merrily along the road when the spring breaks.

No side stand hangs low enough to bounce with the bike is upright.