Ummm... Maori drivers not issued tickets?

[mada]

Here's an earlier "initiative"

Police and local iwi have come up with a strategy they hope will reduce the victimisation, offending and road fatalities and injuries among Maori in Rotorua.

The strategy (The Turning of the Tide - a Whanau Ora Crime and Crash Prevention Strategy), has been based on crime and crash plans drawn up by iwi across the country, Te Arawa among them, and was endorsed by iwi leaders nationwide.

Mr Marshall said the aims were for a 10 per cent decrease in first-time Maori offenders, a 20 per cent decrease in repeat Maori victims and offenders, a 25 per cent decrease in (non-traffic) apprehensions of Maori that are resolved by prosecution and a 20 per cent drop in Maori casualties in fatal and serious crashes.

Ngati Porou leader and Maori Focus Forum member Dr Apirana Mahuika believes the time is right for action.

"Most Maori who are victims or who are directly involved in crime are under 25 years of age. With our population of young people growing, if we do nothing, then even more Maori will end up in hospitals, police cells, courts and prisons. We can't let that happen."

- Rotorua Daily Post

How about a novel suggestion: why do self-identifying Maori try, just, not, breaking the law? or at least, breaking the law at no greater rate of incidence than the rest of us? That would get the decrease you are looking for, Ngati Porou leader and Maori Focus Forum leader Dr Mahuika...

Yup it is that simple!

Must be something in the genes right? The Irish were unfortunate as when the British took over their country, lands, and made them poorer they inherited a mutated version of the good citizen gene and instead ended up with the criminal gene. The Irish criminal gene accounts for why Irish always had greater rates of offending and victimisation from 1700s up to 1900s.

[RDJ]

So you are saying that old white lady driving her beemer in Rems should be stopped at same frequency as young brown driver out South, despite one having a much higher risk of causing a fatal accident?

No I am not. And your total lack of comprehension of the underlying principle suggests that there is no point in trying to reason with you.

[mada]

No I am not. And your total lack of comprehension of the underlying principle suggests that there is no point in trying to reason with you.

You are the one arguing that all should be treated equally by the law. Yet here is the reality and an example where you contradict that assertion.

[RDJ]

Mada - I provided an example of an earlier race-based stupidity where the underlying logic was equally fallacious. Clearly the 'authorities' are bent on not treating everyone equally. I was not condoning it, merely pointing out the latest Hamauha-fronted racist strategy was clearly not a one-off apartheid idiocy.

[mada]

RDJ

1. If it was race based it would be for the whole of NZ. Instead it is for one specific area. A high risk area, and then within that a high risk population.

2. This is not an official policy. It is a guideline to Police Officers to consider when using their discretion.

3. Iwi organisations appear to be the ones running and funding the scheme in regards to compliance. Do we have non-Maori community organisations which will do something this intensive and for free???

4. It is much easier for a Police Officer and Police as an organisation to write ticket and pass it over. It involves more time and administration to go through the hassle of grabbing all details, making referrals to support agencies, checking on compliance and following up in 2 months time, and then writing ticket a if non-compliance.

Would the extra time and administration be worth it if applied to people were not such a risk? Would the cost to benefit ratio be favourable if such an approach was rolled out nationally, especially to areas where compliance was more likely through just a fine or a warning?

5. How well is the current strategy of ticket, courts, fines, working?

6. How can other measures such as higher risk targeted interventions eg. more patrols, more check points, more stops, targeted at young brown drivers be considered as "equality"? And because of that their likelihood of receiving infringements higher? Opposed to being a smart risk-based approach, which arguably isn't that equal in principle?

[mada]

The same can be said for preferential recruitment of "yellow cops" and funding for civilian Asian Liaison Officers and other area-specific ethnic focused crime prevention strategies.

If we stuck strictly to equality, Asian communities would face greater barriers in reporting crimes and higher victimisation. We also wouldn't be able to bust as many of the P dealers at Skycity.

The "one approach" fits works well for those of us who fall within the majority, but it has it's flaws.

[wharekura]

so whats the maori word for electricity

Tiriti o Waitangi

[RDJ]

RDJ

1. If it was race based it would be for the whole of NZ. Instead it is for one specific area. A high risk area, and then within that a high risk population.

2. This is not an official policy. It is a guideline to Police Officers to consider when using their discretion.

3. Iwi organisations appear to be the ones running and funding the scheme in regards to compliance. Do we have non-Maori community organisations which will do something this intensive and for free???

4. It is much easier for a Police Officer and Police as an organisation to write ticket and pass it over. It involves more time and administration to go through the hassle of grabbing all details, making referrals to support agencies, checking on compliance and following up in 2 months time, and then writing ticket a if non-compliance.

Would the extra time and administration be worth it if applied to people were not such a risk? Would the cost to benefit ratio be favourable if such an approach was rolled out nationally, especially to areas where compliance was more likely through just a fine or a warning?

5. How well is the current strategy of ticket, courts, fines, working?

6. How can other measures such as higher risk targeted interventions eg. more patrols, more check points, more stops, targeted at young brown drivers be considered as "equality"? And because of that their likelihood of receiving infringements higher? Opposed to being a smart risk-based approach, which arguably isn't that equal in principle?

It is race-based - as the police themselves have said. You can put forward all the rationalizations you are fond of - that is what people who favour racial policies do as they try to convince themselves they are not favouring policies based on the color of the skin of both offenders and the racially privileged. But, that does not change the facts.

And it is an official policy, we saw it on an official document. Complete with typically bureaucratic misspellings.

Go ahead and knock yourself out trying to convince yourself it's not racial bias. It simply is. As unpalatable as that must be to you.

[Swoop]

These are now available on TardMe.

[mada]

It is race-based - as the police themselves have said. You can put forward all the rationalizations you are fond of - that is what people who favour racial policies do as they try to convince themselves they are not favouring policies based on the color of the skin of both offenders and the racially privileged. But, that does not change the facts.

And it is an official policy, we saw it on an official document. Complete with typically bureaucratic misspellings.

Go ahead and knock yourself out trying to convince yourself it's not racial bias. It simply is. As unpalatable as that must be to you.

That's a great way of not actually debating any points, and shooting the messenger - "someone who favours racial policies". Good logic.

I favour risk based approaches, if that means ethnicity is a risk factor then it is legitimate to target that but also to intervene.

[Banditbandit]

from a polytech tutor and personal friend

'The reason put forward is that Maori have a different learning pedagogy (style) than others and need the extra time to focus. When we have 230 free positions for Maori and Pacifica students in engineering and can only fill half of them I have different views on their study and learning styles.!'

That's crap .. I work in a Māori teaching environment, and yes, there are different LEARNING pedagogies .. but an assessment task is still an assessment task and when I set three hour exams I expect my Maori students to complete those in three hours - not four hours, and I don't set easier exams for them ..

I guess that if their goal is to reduce the "over representation of Maori in those statistics" then the obvious solution is to not ticket therefore they don't become a statistic. Voila! - over representation removed. And all the people said "aaaay-men".

That's a bullshit way of achieving the goal ...

Good luck with that - by letting them off when breaking the law, how does that help? Just askin'.

It doesn't - but then they are not completely "let off" they have to do some things otherwise they pay the fine ...

So you are saying that old white lady driving her beemer in Rems should be stopped at same frequency as young brown driver out South, despite one having a much higher risk of causing a fatal accident?

Yeah - stop the old white lady - the ones I've seen are bloody dangerous ...

But no - I do get your point .. stop them when they demonstrate bad driving - don't stop them because of their ethnicity.

[Banditbandit]

so whats the maori word for electricity

Hiko ... ask me a hard one ..

[RDJ]

That's a great way of not actually debating any points, and shooting the messenger - "someone who favours racial policies". Good logic.

I favour risk based approaches, if that means ethnicity is a risk factor then it is legitimate to target that but also to intervene.

As I said - keep justifying racially-based and -biased policies if that works for you. Keep calling them legitimate because they are risk-based if that works for you. You're not keeping very fragrant historical company with that approach but you're clearly OK with that. If you think that it is shooting the messenger to point out the facts of your attitude - again, feel free.

[mada]

As I said - keep justifying racially-based and -biased policies if that works for you. Keep calling them legitimate because they are risk-based if that works for you. You're not keeping very fragrant historical company with that approach but you're clearly OK with that. If you think that it is shooting the messenger to point out the facts of your attitude - again, feel free.

The reality is if we had true equality under the law and you received equal Police attention on the road, equal chance of being stopped, equal chance of being fined, like Hone out South

or

equal Customs attention when you travelled, equal chance of being searched and questioned for a couple of hours like Mr Muhommed or Mr Zhou, you would be whinging about your rights, socialist like authoritarianism, and PC gone mad.

How come you have no concern or issue with the racially biased privileges you un-fairly receive at this point in time?

Based on my experiences, middle aged and older white men were the most likely to complain when being asked a few questions compared to any other group of people who had "nothing to hide". Their probably most likely to groan about the experience online too.

[jasonu]

They should scrap Police discretion for fines. Give every mofo who speeds 1km over the speed limit or is in breach of any part of their licence fines with no excuses.

Then we will have "one law for all". Who's keen?

But wasn't that how it was before all this 'give a bro a break' shit?