When is capital punishment ever justifiable?

[oldrider]

In a way I 'almost' feel sorry for him... I doubt he was born that way but it sounds like his mother at lest still cared. However be it nature or nurture the is just no way back from here. Lock the cunt up for the rest of his life? Throw millions at rehabilitation when hes refused everything?? Fucked if I know... I know what I feel though....

Just posing for a picture like that should be a crime against common sense... Idiot...

Our public clemency cost that lady her life - I feel sorry for her - and all his other victims! - We - NZ let them down!

[Akzle]

Regardless, he's still a fuckwitted thug, long may he rot in hell - and the sooner the better...

yes and no regardless.

Morons will see that, think 'gun' and think 'guns r bad' hmkay. Its fucking irrelevant.


But yeah. The cunt can eat a bowl of dicks.

[Akzle]

Just posing for a picture like that should be a crime against common sense... Idiot...

it saddens me that youre allowed to vote. Let alone breathe.

Also, in this day and age, probably no posing required, some cunt would have snapped it on his cellphone.

And what does it actually show? Hm?


Please, enlighten us from your ignorance.

[husaberg]

Our public clemency cost that lady her life - I feel sorry for her - and all his other victims! - We - NZ let them down!

http://webcache.googleusercontent.co...&ct=clnk&gl=nz
note This judgment was delivered by Justice Wylie

on 19 February 2014 at 4.00 pm

Pursuant to r 11.5 of the High Court Rules
It is noteworthy that Keane J declined a request by the Crown to sentence Mr Robertson to preventive detention, noting that the Court’s ability to impose an extended supervision order upon his release was a relevant factor in determining whether a non-finite sentence was appropriate

Ms Tolond is a qualified registered psychologist
She detailed Mr Robertson’s pattern of offending and concluded that he displays a tendency to use violence, both instrumentally, and reactively. Having considered Mr Robertson’s criminal history, I agree with that comment. Ms Tolond considered that Mr Robertson’s move to sexual offending increased the risk he poses to the community. Again, I agree with this comment.

She recorded that Mr Robertson does not accept that he sexually offended against the victim, and that he has not accepted any responsibility for his actions. He has manifested no empathy for the victims, and he became agitated when he was questioned in regard to these matters. She noted that Mr Robertson’s lack of remorse, penchant for externalising responsibility, and ongoing sense of entitlement, appear to be part of an enduring personality pattern, whereby he blames and holds others accountable for his behaviour.

Overall, Ms Tolond signalled there is a high risk that Mr Robertson will engage in relevant sexual offending on his release. She considered that his sexual reoffending is likely to place female children who are unknown to him, including those in public places, at risk of abduction, indecent assault, or further sexual offences.

On 6 January 2014, Mr Robertson was convicted for breaching his parole conditions by failing to comply with the house rules imposed by the Prisoners Aid and Rehabilitation Society which was providing him with accommodation.

is also charged that on 16 January 2014, Mr Robertson, despite a previous warning, was in a public park. The Parole Board required as a condition of his release that he should not enter a public park or reserve or other place where children were likely to congregate, unless he was under direct supervision at the time. Mr Robertson has denied this breach.

There is a real and ongoing risk that cannot sensibly be ignored, having regard to the nature and gravity of the likely offending. In my judgment, an extended supervision order should be made.

Mr Robertson was released from custody on 11 December 2013, notwithstanding that the statutory release date was 14 December 2013. The statutory conditions of release, and the conditions imposed by the Parole Board, run from the statutory release date, as opposed to his actual release date. Hence, the conditions imposed run through until 14 June 2014.

I had posted this earlier

[scumdog]

it saddens me that youre allowed to vote. Let alone breathe.

Also, in this day and age, probably no posing required, some cunt would have snapped it on his cellphone.

And what does it actually show? Hm?


Please, enlighten us from your ignorance.

It's just a media lookame pic...who cares...

[seattle smitty]

USA does this all the time by the "employment of constant global war" as a means of controlling world economics and populations!

Just ran across this thread, probably should stay out of it, but . . . .

Keep in mind first that when "the USA" does things, it doesn't necessarily mean that the citizenry approves. When the unelected George Bush, Jr. got us involved in a two-front war after 9/11, a great many of us were against this, despite the (surprising) enthusiasm for it by most of the press opinionators, who were otherwise skeptical about Dubya, and also despite the even more unaccountable failure of the opposition Democratic Party to mount any major opposition to it. Of course, a great majority of Americans are now opposed to any more such idiotic foreign adventure, having seen the Iraq invasion create a hundred new wannabe terrorists for every one killed, including members of ISIS. (FWIW, I am more or less an American conservative, but detest Bush, and didn't care much for Reagan or any of those calling themselves conservatives today; these are not conservatives as I knew them fifty years ago).

As to capital punishment, we (and I) resent being constantly lectured about it; "The Economist" (of London), one of the few decent weekly news magazines left, still manages to annoy me with its frequent suggestions that we become civilized by dropping the death penalty. My attitude is that capital punishment, properly done, should be an unremarkable matter of ordinary societal hygiene. People object that modern DNA testing methods have uncovered "many" cases of "innocents" on death row. My reaction is, first, that many of the "innocents" were still bad acotrs who, while they didn't commit the crime in question, were guilty of many transgressions, some prosecuted, some not; and second that the DNA testing will henceforth mean fewer erroneous convictions.

There are a LOT of problems with our current system of capital punishment, already enumerated by opponents, and they should be fixed. But the concept is not uncivilized. What's uncivilized is a man who rapes a very young girl and then chops off her hands with an axe. Neither life in prison nor death by lethal injection are sufficient for such cases; the man should die in prolonged extreme agony. Hard to write a law to cover that, unfortunately.

[Paul in NZ]

it saddens me that youre allowed to vote. Let alone breathe.

Also, in this day and age, probably no posing required, some cunt would have snapped it on his cellphone.

And what does it actually show? Hm?


Please, enlighten us from your ignorance.

I shall wear this as a badge of honor and consider myself elevated to exalted company - thank you...

Granted the media will post up any old picture they can find to illustrate some kind of point. I think the vast majority of us, despite your low opinion, are rather more capable of filtering the subliminal messaging.

He is holding a shitty old air rifle one handed wearing gloves ffs and dressed like god knows what. Why is he holding it one handed? Better than even chance hes taking a selfie.. (I assume you know what a selfie is - let me know if you don't)... Chances are hes uploaded it himself and there is no way its a random holiday snap. As an image it IS relevant as its a window into how he sees himself...

[Akzle]

Neither life in prison nor death by lethal injection are sufficient for such cases; the man should die in prolonged extreme agony. Hard to write a law to cover that, unfortunately.

errr. No. That is not 'societal hygeine'.
That's "vengeance". And who does that benefit? How does that make society/you, any better than him?

(cos 'awwwww mom, but he started it', right?)

Im all for executing him. While its a heinous crime on his part, 'a bullet is too good for him' is horseshit.
Remove him from the genepool, "humanely" job done, and there'd be no shortage of volunteers.

[Akzle]

I think the vast majority of us, despite your low opinion, are rather more capable of filtering the subliminal messaging.

i disagree.

He is holding a shitty old air rifle one handed wearing gloves ffs and dressed like god knows what. Why is he holding it one handed? Better than even chance hes taking a selfie.. (I assume you know what a selfie is - let me know if you don't)... Chances are hes uploaded it himself and there is no way its a random holiday snap. As an image it IS relevant as its a window into how he sees himself...

fair schtick, had not considered that angle (pun intended).
And yeah, im an anti-fan of selfies, but whether to blame him for feeling the need to put it on the internet... I dont, i blame the selfie culture.

As an 'insight in to how he sees hisself', maybe. Leather gloves are a bit ott, but hell, it could be cold where he is.

Hell, the number of times ive been top to toe in black/camo, belaclava and gloves with (generally shotguns, not air rifles) is many, fortunately noone i hang out with feels the need to update facebook every 5 minutes, or what, i'd also be lined up as a rapist? A wannabe terrorist?

so, wearing warm clothes and holding an air rifle is no indication of anything, really. Even posting that on the internet doesnt elevate it to 'beyond normal' nowadays.

Im not excusing any of his actions, just separating shooters from murdering rapists.

[Akzle]

also, and ima get a bit csi dr phil on this. Firearms crime is generally considered discompassionate, accidental or incidental, anyone can point a gun and kill someone very easily

typically, killing someone with a knife would be considered a 'crime of passion', it involves being closer and getting your hands dirty. Not for the squeamish.

Theyre a different class of murder, if you will.
(in this case i have no doubt hes a socio-psycho-path and there was possibly no passion involved) but guns do not lead to stabbing puppies (or people).

[Paul in NZ]

i disagree.



fair schtick, had not considered that angle (pun intended).
And yeah, im an anti-fan of selfies, but whether to blame him for feeling the need to put it on the internet... I dont, i blame the selfie culture.

As an 'insight in to how he sees hisself', maybe. Leather gloves are a bit ott, but hell, it could be cold where he is.

Hell, the number of times ive been top to toe in black/camo, belaclava and gloves with (generally shotguns, not air rifles) is many, fortunately noone i hang out with feels the need to update facebook every 5 minutes, or what, i'd also be lined up as a rapist? A wannabe terrorist?

so, wearing warm clothes and holding an air rifle is no indication of anything, really. Even posting that on the internet doesnt elevate it to 'beyond normal' nowadays.

Im not excusing any of his actions, just separating shooters from murdering rapists.

I agree - I have indeed been pictured with firearms and with the bloody remains of a successful kill. (ie a blind deaf animal that was most likely depressed and wanting to end it all) Its probably only that the internet wasn't even a glimmer in someone's eye and the photo was not digital that's stopped me being daft. (that and I look like a Ewok with a spud gun)

FWIW the photograph was credited in this morning Dominion Post as being the profile picture from his facebook page. The facebook page was set up after his release and before this offending... Given his background - I think you might agree its a fairly unwise image to present to the world although as he considered himself wrongly convicted it might be exactly who he thought he was - so who knows.

No good new in this

[Akzle]

while im fairly certain he's guilty of everything he's charged with, and probably more, and should be shot, two things come up.

(any accusation against/ failings of the system will get me going)
The dna evidence 'planted' by he cops
and that i've only found one mention of him using drugs as an excuse. Presumably bail conditions would preclude drug use? Presumably also he would push it heavily as an excuse, mental incompetence or incapacity.

Also that, while wearing a gps collar he was 'allegedly' at a park...(he denies) Surely easily verifiable.

Anyway, hopefully now that his names known he'll be thrown in general and may find 'hanging himself' to be the most comfortable course of action.

[Virago]

...People object that modern DNA testing methods have uncovered "many" cases of "innocents" on death row. My reaction is, first, that many of the "innocents" were still bad acotrs who, while they didn't commit the crime in question, were guilty of many transgressions, some prosecuted, some not; and second that the DNA testing will henceforth mean fewer erroneous convictions...

I can't let that one go. "Oops, we've executed or are about to execute someone in error. But he must have done some other vaguely defined things wrong, so that's okay then." I mean, really...?

...There are a LOT of problems with our current system of capital punishment, already enumerated by opponents, and they should be fixed. But the concept is not uncivilized. What's uncivilized is a man who rapes a very young girl and then chops off her hands with an axe. Neither life in prison nor death by lethal injection are sufficient for such cases; the man should die in prolonged extreme agony. Hard to write a law to cover that, unfortunately.

Aah, that puts your views in clear perspective. What you're wanting is vengeance, served up with pure cruelty. Luckily those of us in more civilised societies recognise that two wrongs don't make a right, and realise that the justice system must rise above such animal behaviour.

[seattle smitty]

[QUOTE=Virago;1130886949] . . . " must have done some other vaguely defined things wrong . . ."

I'm not just guessing about this, it has been shown to be the case in more than one study. Most imprisoned felons have commited many crimes that were never prosecuted. These are vermin. I recently had a long talk with a prison guard who is about to retire after having worked in local, state, and federal prisons. I asked him what he thought about the likelihood of rehabilitating any worthwhile percentage of the prisoners he has known and was answered with a derisive snort. I see no reason for taxpayers to feed and house the vermin who prey upon them.

Vengeance? Good!! Let the punishment fit the crime. You can turn your other cheek if you want. Vengeance is mine, saith the atheist (me). If I catch a thief trying to rip me off, I am armed, and have a backhoe. This is not machismo, I really am a peaceable sort; my only attitude is that these individuals have no more value than a mosquito.

I knew I should have stayed out of this.

[Grubber]

[QUOTE=seattle smitty;1130887079]

. . . " must have done some other vaguely defined things wrong . . ."

I'm not just guessing about this, it has been shown to be the case in more than one study. Most imprisoned felons have commited many crimes that were never prosecuted. These are vermin. I recently had a long talk with a prison guard who is about to retire after having worked in local, state, and federal prisons. I asked him what he thought about the likelihood of rehabilitating any worthwhile percentage of the prisoners he has known and was answered with a derisive snort. I see no reason for taxpayers to feed and house the vermin who prey upon them.

Vengeance? Good!! Let the punishment fit the crime. You can turn your other cheek if you want. Vengeance is mine, saith the atheist (me). If I catch a thief trying to rip me off, I am armed, and have a backhoe. This is not machismo, I really am a peaceable sort; my only attitude is that these individuals have no more value than a mosquito.

I knew I should have stayed out of this.

Ahhh there you see is the problem. I have highlighted the above piece of script that puts a damper on the whole deal. MOST doesn't mean ALL! What does one do now.