Using LAMS approved bikes for full license test?

[FJRider]

And after the restricted test they don't need a supervisor.

They have to pass the test(s) first.

Some have been known to fail them ...

[Moi]

They have to pass the test(s) first.

Some have been known to fail them ...

How could you say such a thing - and shatter their "dreams"...

[deerworrier]

WTF, seriously you two, the law has just allowed learners to ride a 660cc. The cry before was 'fartbox 250's' now already it's 'fartbox 650's'.
The year etc is about EXPERIENCE! ACC rider, etc cannot give you the experience of riding in high gusty cross winds, heavy rain, cold conditions where you need to consider ice etc.
There are many of us still left who as noob's survived {somehow} the days of buy it, Looney plate it, ride it out the dealer door, and fuck off down the road.
Instead of bleating it isnt fair, accept if anything, it is done to protect you, and make sure {hopefully} you are ready to progress.... Or even better lets bring in the European 'stepped' licence, so you need to 'test' to shift up above each CC bracket???
The biggest difference between a car and bike..... a mistake in a car usually only results in some bent metal

so the assumption the system makes is that everyone who gets their 6R head out in all conditions and situations to gain the "experience". at no point did I decry the use of the 660, my statement was regarding the lack of any advancement beyond that for 12months. when I go to do my test will the examiner select a day where he can evaluate my abilities in the conditions you list as needed experience or will I simply pootle around in from of him doing mirror checks and watching my speed? and after I have done my 6F I can buy whatever the hell I want and then fuck off down the road, quite possible no more experienced than when I passed my 6F. I am actually doing around 10-12 hours a week minimum and long rides on the weekend with mates who give me good pointers and I go out with the CBTA instructor when I can so that when I do pass my 6F in 12 fucking months I am actually as prepared for the road as I can be. thanks for well considered reply and please don't lump me in with the idiot OP, I feel my response was somewhat more considered and nothing more than an observation on my experience thus far and with no bleating as I see it, but hey, why consider when you can just hit full drama mode.

[Tazz]

so the assumption the system makes is that everyone who gets their 6R head out in all conditions and situations to gain the "experience". at no point did I decry the use of the 660, my statement was regarding the lack of any advancement beyond that for 12months. when I go to do my test will the examiner select a day where he can evaluate my abilities in the conditions you list as needed experience or will I simply pootle around in from of him doing mirror checks and watching my speed? and after I have done my 6F I can buy whatever the hell I want and then fuck off down the road, quite possible no more experienced than when I passed my 6F. I am actually doing around 10-12 hours a week minimum and long rides on the weekend with mates who give me good pointers and I go out with the CBTA instructor when I can so that when I do pass my 6F in 12 fucking months I am actually as prepared for the road as I can be. thanks for well considered reply and please don't lump me in with the idiot OP, I feel my response was somewhat more considered and nothing more than an observation on my experience thus far and with no bleating as I see it, but hey, why consider when you can just hit full drama mode.

12 months is not a long time to wait. When you're young (sub 20ish) it SEEMS like a long time, but it really isn't.

I'd hate to think how many more fucktards would slip through the cracks if they made it any easier/shorter.

Even with your 12 hours a week for a year is still SFA in the grand scheme of your driving life.

[deerworrier]

again, its not the waiting I am questioning its the value of the wait? I would like to see and this is from someone in their 12month wait, is a system of continuous assessment whereby I would reach the end of my 12 month with some serious experience and tuition. take the high wind/heavy rain scenario, which do you believe is best....1. 12month wait and hope the individual decides to take his/her bike out in conditions completely alien to them in the hope of figuring it out and not doing themselves an injury(beause its not in the 6F assemssment). or 2. a lesson or 2 with instructor fall on appalling weather condition days and instructor says "we are going anyway, it is good experience and I can guide you through the do's and don'ts"? the statement I made was a simple hypothetical idea, one where rather than just disappearing for 12months and magically becoming an experienced rider you actually had to put in the hours and be taught/learn the roadcraft so many folks wax lyrical to needing. im not for one moment suggesting that I should be allowed a bigger bike in the year. no im actually very happy with my 660 "fartbox" thank you, im simply suggesting that on its own the year means nothing and if people want to see true and actual change then a system of continuous assessment and training should be looked at. if an individual manages to get through the assessment quicker than 12 months great but it was not the main point of my comment.

and while I appreciate the under 20 comments, im afraid those days are very, very far behind me.

[Tazz]

again, its not the waiting I am questioning its the value of the wait? I would like to see and this is from someone in their 12month wait, is a system of continuous assessment whereby I would reach the end of my 12 month with some serious experience and tuition. take the high wind/heavy rain scenario, which do you believe is best....1. 12month wait and hope the individual decides to take his/her bike out in conditions completely alien to them in the hope of figuring it out and not doing themselves an injury(beause its not in the 6F assemssment). or 2. a lesson or 2 with instructor fall on appalling weather condition days and instructor says "we are going anyway, it is good experience and I can guide you through the do's and don'ts"? the statement I made was a simple hypothetical idea, one where rather than just disappearing for 12months and magically becoming an experienced rider you actually had to put in the hours and be taught/learn the roadcraft so many folks wax lyrical to needing. im not for one moment suggesting that I should be allowed a bigger bike in the year. no im actually very happy with my 660 "fartbox" thank you, im simply suggesting that on its own the year means nothing and if people want to see true and actual change then a system of continuous assessment and training should be looked at. if an individual manages to get through the assessment quicker than 12 months great but it was not the main point of my comment.

and while I appreciate the under 20 comments, im afraid those days are very, very far behind me.

I am also decently north of 20 and in the LAMS system, but will go well over all the time limits because I'm lazy and I do what I want anyway

For the experience, personally I see it as my own personal responsibility to ensure I get it (even after you have your full. There is always room for improvement) and the testing is just ticking the required bureaucratic boxes to avoid getting fines.

Accelerating through with lessons etc would be cool, and probably turn out better riders but unless it was enforced it is a little pointless because often the people who who most benefit from that sort of thing are the last to actively seek it themselves.
The flip side to that is also lessons don't work for everyone. Some people are better finding their own way or learning from others around them rather than under the pressure of an instructor/assessor.

At the end of the day, while the system is not perfect it is not exactly horribly flawed either. The CBTA is a great step in the right direction I think. You are aware it is 18 months for those that choose the old path? To me the CBTA is already a 6 months short cut which covers some of your points above via stricter testing/assessment.

[Moi]

again, its not the waiting ... very, very far behind me.

What you are suggesting and describing is not too dissimilar to what motorcyclists and drivers are required to do within the "EU System".

I applaud you for taking the initiative to progress your skills, something I fear many younger persons would not see as necessary. Perhaps age does have an advantage - we recognise more clearly our limitations and try to do something about it - we become more thinking road users.

I'd hazard a guess that you'd also like to see some form of mentoring / tuition / lessons / assessment / evaluation within the 6R period that is more structured than the present Bronze / Silver and Gold programme, not that there is anything inherently wrong with the Bronze etc programme. What we have, as stated above is not perfect, but it is what we have to live with and accept that the "powers-to-be" are only likely to increase the "number of hoops' to jump through than lessen them. Unless the authorities are prepared to make it mandatory to undertake continuous upskilling then we, as motorcyclists and motorists, need to be prepared to accept that responsibility ourselves. I'd be pleased to see ACC spend some of the levies gathered to further extend the existing programmes, however I am also well aware of the horse and the water trough scenario.

[JimO]

For a start, try getting insurance on a bike you are not licenced to ride. Do you think all people sitting the full test should do it on a 1200?

BTW car licences will be changing soon to restrict motor size.

i have just bought a 2ltr car would that be ok for a learner.........it puts out 197kw

[MarkH]

ACC rider, etc cannot give you the experience of riding in high gusty cross winds, heavy rain, cold conditions where you need to consider ice etc.

Ahh, but what about the 'fair weather rider' that gets a bike but only rides it on the weekends when it is a nice day? After a year that rider could have less than 40 hours riding experience.
Then there is the keen rider that rides daily and goes on longer rides on the weekends, after 3 months that person could have over 120 hours of riding experience.
The 12 months thing really is rather arbitrary, I'd rather see more exhaustive testing but also more flexibility on the length of time before getting the full license.

I would agree that the current system is better than what we used to have back when I got my license, but I think we could do better again.

[Tazz]

Ahh, but what about the 'fair weather rider' that gets a bike but only rides it on the weekends when it is a nice day? After a year that rider could have less than 40 hours riding experience.
Then there is the keen rider that rides daily and goes on longer rides on the weekends, after 3 months that person could have over 120 hours of riding experience.
The 12 months thing really is rather arbitrary, I'd rather see more exhaustive testing but also more flexibility on the length of time before getting the full license.

I would agree that the current system is better than what we used to have back when I got my license, but I think we could do better again.

What about natural ability? If that fair weather rider had greater natural ability then the 40 vs 120 is redundant. Someone could need 400 hours to be on par with anothers 40.

[nzspokes]

i have just bought a 2ltr car would that be ok for a learner.........it puts out 197kw

Nice, my 3.8 doesnt get that. Then again I dont care about my cars HP figures.

[JimO]

Nice, my 3.8 doesnt get that. Then again I dont care about my cars HP figures.

of course you dont thats why you have a old commonwhore

[nzspokes]

of course you dont thats why you have a old commonwhore

Common cars are good. Easy to get parts. Being a wagon it hauls the tribe to camping etc well. As long as it can keep up with the flow of traffic Im happy with the power. Can gate the dogs off in the back and it tows the trailer well for track days. Works for us.

[Ender EnZed]

i have just bought a 2ltr car would that be ok for a learner.........it puts out 197kw

It'll be fine as long as it doesn't have a turbo or any "fast" letters tagged on after the name.

[MarkH]

What about natural ability? If that fair weather rider had greater natural ability then the 40 vs 120 is redundant. Someone could need 400 hours to be on par with anothers 40.

Well surely that's where the exhaustive testing comes in, if the rider can demonstrate the required confidence & ability then they move up in license - why does it matter if they had their 6r for 3 months or 12 months?