Downsizing - interesting read.

[pritch]

Thought about one of these?

They look cool but though they were originally Italian they are now Chinese and there have reportedly been quality problems in the UK. BIKE say that model's the pick of their range "but it's no Triumph".

[Ocean1]

They look cool but though they were originally Italian they are now Chinese and there have reportedly been quality problems in the UK. BIKE say that model's the pick of their range "but it's no Triumph".

Almost all marques are at least partially made in China. Safe to say most of the lower price range are all made and assembled there.

I looked at that TNT and it's big brother a year or so ago, with no real interest in buying but although they've obviously been "designed" largely via the application of a "styling exercise" the basic engineering is good and a close look at the finish impressed me.

Speaking of design theory and eastern manufacture, didn't you recently look at a KTM 690?

[pritch]

Speaking of design theory and eastern manufacture, didn't you recently look at a KTM 690?

The 690 is still under consideration but I was unaware that it came from India. The smaller ones do I know, and there have reportedly been some minor quality quibbles with those.

On the other hand the Triumph twins were also under consideration to a lesser extent, and they all come from Thailand and have done for years. And so do many of the Hondas sold here these days. And the scooters are from India.

There was somebody here who had worked in China said the piece of information you needed when buying anything made in China was whether the customer company had somebody checking what came off the production line. That particular piece of information, of course, is not available. Chinese get the idea of getting the stuff out the door, the concept of quality control has not reached the same level. Benelli is Chinese owned so there is no Italian at the end of the line. (History might suggest that an Italian QC dude might not be the perfect answer anyway?)

Meanwhile I'll be checking KTM690 parentage.

Update: Only reference I can find quickly refers to "European built"?

[Ocean1]

The 690 is still under consideration but I was unaware that it came from India. The smaller ones do I know, and there have reportedly been some minor quality quibbles with those.

On the other hand the Triumph twins were also under consideration to a lesser extent, and they all come from Thailand and have done for years. And so do many of the Hondas sold here these days. And the scooters are from India.

There was somebody here who had worked in China said the piece of information you needed when buying anything made in China was whether the customer company had somebody checking what came off the production line. That particular piece of information, of course, is not available. Chinese get the idea of getting the stuff out the door, the concept of quality control has not reached the same level. Benelli is Chinese owned so there is no Italian at the end of the line. (History might suggest that an Italian QC dude might not be the perfect answer anyway?)

Meanwhile I'll be checking KTM690 parentage.

Update: Only reference I can find quickly refers to "European built"?

Yes, I believe the 690 is made in Europe, Austria even, as you say further down the model range definitely India.

There's a definite xenophobic tint to Chinese business behaviour, and I'm not sure I see that changing through application of normal international QA compliance protocols. You still need the other "partner" in any joint venture China based manufacturing for that reason alone.

I've been told it's impolitic to attribute behavioural traites to specific ethnic groups, but seeing as how you've obviously not been told yet I'll observe that if there's a bunch of dudes one might consider attention to detail in quite the same fanatical light as your average Austrian engineer I've yet to meet one.

What else is under consideration?

[AllanB]

In a previous employment I dealt with several Hong Kong printing companies that during our association moved their plants to China (HK was too expensive - massive multi colour printers are typically horizontally arranged in series (each colour has it's own unit), the real estate is so expensive in HK they run these machines vertically between floors! ).

Anyway - the parent company (HK) had very good quality control in China and after the first few runs when we went to China to check on each print we dropped the trips. The proofing system was first rate and forwarded for approval prior to a full print.

Quality control of MC's have often been a issue with one specific part from a specific supplier letting the side down. Aprilias first set of V4 pistons spring to mind. I can't think of a real disaster of a ride from a name brand manufacture for a long time. Hmm there was a run of Suzuki Bandits with smokey pistons (oil holes too large), Honda had a cam eater V4 in the 80's ...

[cheshirecat]

I remember when Jap bikes were considered low quality and laughed at. Bought a little CB160 as a first bike and was astounded at the quality, engineering nous and just about everything. Was years ahead of the Bantam, I traveled all over the place on it, even commuting 70 miles 3 days a week once..

[pritch]

What else is under consideration?

I'll go ahead and make your day - a made in Thailand Honda?

Then again on the China thing, nothing to do with bikes though. In the past I have bought Columbia brand shirts and jackets from Farmers. Last time I went to do so I was told that the entire nationwide shipment had been returned to China because of poor quality. I haven't seen any Columbia branded items since but I may check again soon.

I was not happy with Air NZ planning on farming out engine maintenance to China because if the job had to be signed off it very likely would be -whether the job had been done or not. Such things happen in "highly regulated countries". (To quote a person from China.)

To be fair though in the past I have extolled the virtues of the Government of China which has been a leader in reforming criminals into useful members of society. They turn them into organ donors.

China will probably be a motorcycle manufacturing powerhouse in future. Maybe not for a while yet though.

[Ocean1]

I'll go ahead and make your day - a made in Thailand Honda?

Then again on the China thing, nothing to do with bikes though. In the past I have bought Columbia brand shirts and jackets from Farmers. Last time I went to do so I was told that the entire nationwide shipment had been returned to China because of poor quality. I haven't seen any Columbia branded items since but I may check again soon.

I was not happy with Air NZ planning on farming out engine maintenance to China because if the job had to be signed off it very likely would be -whether the job had been done or not. Such things happen in "highly regulated countries". (To quote a person from China.)

To be fair though in the past I have extolled the virtues of the Government of China which has been a leader in reforming criminals into useful members of society. They turn them into organ donors.

China will probably be a motorcycle manufacturing powerhouse in future. Maybe not for a while yet though.

Well, I've had about equal no's of Honda and KTM, and I haven't had a go on a 690 but I very much like the idea of a big tractable lightweight road thumper for... well everything but touring.

I think that if you went through any bike part by part asking where it came from you'd find that China is already the largest manufacturer of motercycles. Assembly is the another matter, and as you've observed, any fault found is much less likely to be reported in a Chinese factory, culturally you don't bring your boss bad news, just doesn't happen. And yet the boss requires this box to be ticked. So ticked it is.

Nor was I happy with Air NZ, for the above reason but also because it's the death of a complete industry in NZ. Other countries, without the human capital we have in any given industry will subsidise the fuck out of any service contract tender just to help build that capacity. Whether they've currently got the ability to service the contract or not. And here we've just chucked away not just the couple of hundred jobs the contract represents but any chance of ever reacquiring them. It's not as if Air NZ was on the bones of it's arse, having been rescued by the govt not so many years ago they were doing very well.

Never mind. We've got minimum wage. And The Dole. And they don't.......

[nerrrd]

China will probably be a motorcycle manufacturing powerhouse in future. Maybe not for a while yet though.

I gather these Chinese made bikes haven't gone down all that well in NZ looking at the price now ($6490 - they were $9995 originally.) I believe the engine is based on the same twin as in the Versys/er650.



http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...1007031830.htm

[Duncan74]

I gather these Chinese made bikes haven't gone down all that well in NZ looking at the price now ($6490 - they were $9995 originally.) I believe the engine is based on the same twin as in the Versys/er650.

Part of the reason may be thaat when they have an interested customer (me) then they didn't respond to an email. Trying to find a stockist was almost impossible, not helped by the circa 1993 website that bounces between the AU and NZ.

Led me to conclude that servicing and ackup were going to be a challenge, even if I bought two for the price of the wee-strom, one as a spare....

[pritch]

I gather these Chinese made bikes haven't gone down all that well in NZ looking at the price now ($6490 - they were $9995 originally.) I believe the engine is based on the same twin as in the Versys/er650.

I used to be a fan of the Honda Deauville - until I heard the exhaust note. Yeah, shallow I know.

The Deauville was a small tourer very similar to that Chinese one but powered by the same engine as the Transalp. In Britain Deauville owners were older than average and did way higher miles than average. The bike wasn't what you'd call quick but it could be ridden for long distances in relative comfort. Like right across Europe or whatever. It being such a useful bike Bluewing in their wisdom didn't import them. They were latterly made in Spain too so they shouldn't have been too expensive.

My needs have changed though, shorter rides will be a bigger percentage of my riding.

[release_the_bees]

I'm also considering selling my two existing bikes and getting a Ninja 300 or rc390. Over the Christmas break I took the CBR250 down to Masterton to see if I could live without the SV1000. Initially, I thought I'd find the trip boring, but it turned out to be one of the most enjoyable trips in years being on the ligher, more flickable bike.

What also surprised me was that the trip was actually quicker on the CBR compared to the SV due to the better tank range meaning I didn't have to stop as often.

Sent from my SM-G900I using Tapatalk

[mossy1200]

I gather these Chinese made bikes haven't gone down all that well in NZ looking at the price now ($6490 - they were $9995 originally.) I believe the engine is based on the same twin as in the Versys/er650.



http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/moto...1007031830.htm

2year warranty even if you sold it for half 2 years later its only 16hundy a year. Wish my bikes only lost that much per year.
Wouldn't be a bad second bike for a sports bike owner to take the other half for a ride every so often.

Im smelling bad raps now though.

[Moi]

I used to be a fan of the Honda Deauville - until I heard the exhaust note. Yeah, shallow I know.

Yes, very shallow...



You can't hear the exhaust over the whine of the shaft drive and the noise of the very reliable gearbox...

The Deauville was a small tourer very similar to that Chinese one but powered by the same engine as the Transalp. In Britain Deauville owners were older than average and did way higher miles than average. The bike wasn't what you'd call quick but it could be ridden for long distances in relative comfort. Like right across Europe or whatever. It being such a useful bike Bluewing in their wisdom didn't import them. They were latterly made in Spain too so they shouldn't have been too expensive...

What would we riders know about what we would like to ride? Well, what would we know?

[Moi]

2year warranty even if you sold it for half 2 years later its only 16hundy a year. Wish my bikes only lost that much per year.
Wouldn't be a bad second bike for a sports bike owner to take the other half for a ride every so often.

I'm smelling bad raps now though.

I'm sure the same was said by British bike riders when the first Jappas arrived...