Are you a 'Kiwi' or a New Zealander?

[P38]

I don't mind being called either a Kiwi or a New Zealander and are quite proud of either term.

When travelling I've found most people (except Americans) understand the term Kiwi and I quite often introduce myself as a Kiwi.

However I do resent being referred to as European, Caucasian or even worse Pakeha.


Cheers
Pete

[Oakie]

I'm a New Zealander on official forms. I'm a Kiwi at most other times. The only term I object to is Pakeha ... which is why I'm a NZer on official forms. Happy to be a 'NZer' alongside all my white, yellow and brown NZer brothers and sisters rather than be sorted by skin colour.

Apart from that, 'kiwi' is also a way to describe how we do stuff so it has become an adjective as well as a noun.

FUN FACT: Did you know that the kiwi bird has the shortest beak of all birds? TRUE!
In zoological terms, a bird's beak is measured from it's nostrils to the end of it's beak. Of course in most birds, the nostrils are where the beak meets the birds head, but on a kiwi, the nostrils are right at the tip of the beak ... hence the kiwi bird having the shortest distance between nostril and beak tip ... has the shortest beak.

You're welcome.

[Woodman]

Being called a Kiwi or a New Zealander doesn't matter to me, but we need a name for us that doesn't need the word "a" in front of it. Every other country has one that I can think* of e.g. That man is Australian, American, Canadian, English, Irish, Iranian, Samoan, German, Danish, French, Italian, etc.

What are we New Zealandish? New Zealandian?


* Didn't think very long.

[Akzle]

Being called a Kiwi or a New Zealander doesn't matter to me, but we need a name for us that doesn't need the word "a" in front of it. Every other country has one that I can think* of e.g. That man is Australian, American, Canadian, English, Irish, Iranian, Samoan, German, Danish, French, Italian, etc.

What are we New Zealandish? New Zealandian?


* Didn't think very long.

yes but if you look to the vernacular it becomes
a chink, a nigger, a spic, a gook, a cannuck, a yank
etc.

[Ocean1]

I think its just splitting hairs.....I see myself as both a New Zealander & a Kiwi...its one and the same to me.

I wouldn't be to worried about beggars taking half of what ''we've" got....we are selling our souls , our country as fast as we can to anyone seemingly.
http://act.sumofus.org/go/231557?t=7...1801867.-g0E5Z
http://act.sumofus.org/go/231558?t=8...1801867.-g0E5Z

At least theres a monetary return,in case you didnt notice we have been giving our country away for decades

There's a waterary return, too, they were replacing every 40 litres with 60.

You have to not notice that bit if you need to get really upset about someone else making money.

[mada]

Obviously you don't like watties...

[Moi]

Try writing "Kiwi" on an immigration form where it asks for Nationality...

[MarkH]

I don't mind being called a kiwi or New Zealander or Caucasian or Pakeha, none of those terms are derogatory and I fit the definition of any of them.
European is wrong though, I was born & raised in NZ, not in Europe.
'New Zealander of European decent' is fine, but rather unwieldy IMO.
I understand that I have English, Scottish & Irish heritage, but I definitely think of myself as a New Zealander or Kiwi.
The only problem with Caucasian or Pakeha or NZer of Euro decent is that for most purposes my race isn't particularly important, at least Kiwi or New Zealander doesn't suggest any negative or positive values based on my race. Not that saying I'm of European decent is any more insulting than saying a person of Maori decent is a Maori.

It seems to me that some people want to take offence and choose to take offence even when referred to by rather benign names.
Someone called you a Kiwi, what! Have you never been called worse than that?

[Voltaire]

yes but if you look to the vernacular it becomes
a chink, a nigger, a spic, a gook, a cannuck, a yank
etc.

There is a song about that..

[Tazz]

You get 4th+++ generation Americans and Australians calling themselves Greek, Italian or what have you, so technically in the minds of many you are neither a Kiwi nor New Zealander

Doesn't bother me either way personally. Still better than being called Bruce.

[Mike.Gayner]

Why do so many people here have an aversion to the term "pakaha" or "European New Zealander"? It's a descriptive term. Whether you chose to define yourself that way or not is up to you, but it's demographically useful for a variety of obvious reasons.

[sidecar bob]

Why do so many people here have an aversion to the term "pakaha".

It's Pakeha, it's a Maori word & although the pretend it isint, it's a very derogatory term.
As a descendant of Dutch & Danish immigrants born in NZ, I do not accept a Maori word to describe my ethnicity.

[Woodman]

yes but if you look to the vernacular it becomes
a chink, a nigger, a spic, a gook, a cannuck, a yank
etc.

Reminds me of that old joke:

What do you call 5 Japanese, 1 Chinese, and 3 African Americans standing on your front lawn?

A sprinkler.

Nip Nip Nip Nip Nip, Chink, Nigger Nigger Nigger.

[Voltaire]

It's Pakeha, it's a Maori word & although the pretend it isint, it's a very derogatory term.
As a descendant of Dutch & Danish immigrants born in NZ, I do not accept a Maori word to describe my ethnicity.

Might be just an urban myth.

At the risk of being a cut and paste know nothing Rant and Raver...

Is it insulting to be called a 'pakeha'?


27 September 2012, by Gavin White



We asked SAYit panel members whether or not they thought that 'pakeha' was originally used by Maori as an insulting term for European settlers. A clear majority believe that it was, including a substantial proportion of Maori.
•66% of New Zealanders believe that 'pakeha' was originally an insulting term, including 44% of Maori
•Under 30 year olds (70%), Aucklanders (70%) and Cantabrians (68%) are relatively likely to believe that this was the case, while Wellingtonians (56%) and other people living in the lower half of the North Island (56%) were less likely to.

I asked this question in late 2011, not long after I'd had a heated discussion with someone who was adamant that 'pakeha' originally meant 'white pig'. I argued that this was exceptionally unlikely, particularly as (as far as I can tell) there were no pigs in New Zealand before Europeans arrived (e.g. http://www.kunekune.info/en/history/history.php suggests that Kune Kune pigs were introduced by European whalers and sealers while the origin of 'Captain Cookers' is implied in the name).

After I asked this question, I thought it'd be useful to consult an expert in the Maori language. I spoke to Associate Professor Rawinia Higgins, from Victoria University's School of Maori Studies. Her response was:

“There is no evidence that ‘pakeha’ was originally used by Maori as an insulting term. The word originates from Pakehakeha, which means 'Imaginary beings resembling men, with fair skins' (Williams Dictionary pg: 252). At the point of contact with Maori it would make sense that these strangers could be described in such a manner. However, what people take issue with is that there are multiple meanings of the base words of pakeha and of course it is easier to sensationalize the more derogatory meanings rather than the original intention.”

This article supports Associate Professor Higgins' view: http://maorinews.com/writings/papers/other/pakeha.htm, while other articles (e.g. http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/1966/mao...pakeha-maori/2 and http://nzetc.victoria.ac.nz/tm/schol...i-body-d1.html) indicate that 'Pakehakeha' was a name for a type of pale-skinned sea god.



I suspect part of the reason people have come to the conclusion that 'pakeha' was insulting is the nature of the Maori language. From my limited understanding it seems to be something of a 'portmanteau' language - meaning that smaller words are often combined to become longer words. Just as in English the words 'goal' and 'keeper' have been combined to become 'goalkeeper', in Maori we see words like 'wai' and 'tangi' combined to become 'Waitangi'. That's compounded by the fact that some simple Maori words have multiple meanings - http://www.maoridictionary.co.nz, for example, shows that 'pa' can mean to touch or hit, to obstruct, a village and a group. It does not mean 'white' or 'pale' (as many of us will remember the song from school - 'ma is white').



The same dictionary gives three meanings for the word 'keha' - 'flea', 'turnip' and 'ulcer'.



The fact that 'pakeha' is shorter than 'pakehakeha' is of limited importance - plenty of other words have been shortened in regular usage (e.g. 'bike' and 'pram').



So basically we're left with a choice - we can either believe that Maori first referred to Europeans as 'fair skinned beings resembling men' (with a possible connection with the sea) or as 'a group of turnips'. Given that Europeans arrived by sea, were comparatively pale skinned, and possessed technology which must have seemed magical to the first Maori to encounter them, I tend to think that the former is more likely.



Of course, none of that matters if people FEEL insulted to be called pakeha. I'm fine with it, but know that many are not. Feel free to comment below, or there's a Facebook poll running at http://www.facebook.com/sayitnz asking people whether they feel comfortable with the term.

[WNJ]

Neither. I'm English.

Same, but don't care if someone calls me pakeha as long as there not offended being called, coco, sa,nigger, coon, hori, gook,chink,yarpi ,fob in reply