Meth War inevitable? What d'ya reckon?

[Banditbandit]

If society did what was required to manage poor personal decisions and bad behaviour you'd be the very first to bleat like fuck.

If you think drug use is a 'bad behavior problem" then there is no point in continuing this conversation ..

It's a knee jerk reaction to point out that bad behaviour is the fault of those behaving badly?

And you most certainly are attempting to shift blame. It's not society's fault that dealers and users cause the damage they do, is it? It's the fucking dealers and users fault. Isn't it?

You're looking at the crims only - sure they are part of the problem - deal with them appropriately.

There's certainly a place for help from society for users, and effective policing and sentencing of the illegal trade in drugs, we're already spending shitloads on it, as you well know. But don't try to pretend that it's society's fault that it hasn't fixed every individual's bad behaviour.

You've missed my point - deal with the social conditions that create the users ... before they become users .. Once someone is an addict it's pretty much too late - only 10% of addicts ever recover ..

Couldn't agree more. Social welfare here has a lot to answer for, don't it?

Yeah - the way social welfare works in our current society is part of the wider social issues ..

[Banditbandit]

I don't think a stogie (or even an expensive fat Cuban fire turd) with a single malt whisky turn their ingestors into psychotic paranoid wackos though.

Yeah ???

[Crasherfromwayback]

Lonely, broke, got no options, stuck in a shit job and everything sucks... why wouldn't you look for a way out?

Nailed it.

[Katman]

Nailed it.

Dude, move to Taupo.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Dude, move to Taupo.

Lol. Well I'll certainly be trucking through there before too long!

[OddDuck]

http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crim...inue-expansion

Pretty scary stuff to the ordinary joe in the street, but how likely do you reckon this is?
Media scare tactics or something to genuinely be worried about?

If it's truly the road NZ is heading down (and I suspect there's at least some fire causing this smoke) do we take the lead from Indonesia or what? I just wish the arseholes who are responsible for the devastation caused by these drugs would all suddenly die from their evil shit.

Just jumping back to the start... Something I'd read about the big bikie gangs in Oz and what happened with the trading of meth and rapid expansion. There was a war, but it wasn't gang vs gang so much. Internal rivalries boiled over and the wars were internal to the gangs, faction vs faction inside the same chapters. From memory (can't post links sorry) this happened to several gangs, so it got sort of predictable... about two years after a chapter started serious meth dealing, it imploded. Wouldn't be too much of a reach to imagine the same thing happening here.

[PrincessBandit]

If they all succumbed to the effects of their vile shit, even if only by going at each other, I'd think it was suitable justice.

[cynna]

If it wasn't available they wouldn't be able to buy it. I'm sure there are users who wish, in whatever lucid moments they have, that they had never started on it.
The manufacturers, suppliers and distributors don't give a flying fuck about the lives, families and societies they're destroying, as long as they get their filthy lucre.

Ah, yes, "ah, commerce" - that's all it's all about.

ahhhhs so its kfc. macdonalds etc fault for all the fatties around. its there so they must eat it? thats right they are all just victems

how available is meth tho? no one has ever offered it to me and ive never seen anyone selling it on the street corner

[cynna]

Not sure that the drug dealers and producers want it legalised either it's not in their interests - what else are they going to use to get power and money - prostitutions gone legit, we all steal music and movies off the internet so no hooky CD/ DVD's, porn industry has gone corporate, no one steals car stereos anymore. What's left for your local shady character to do if drugs go?

law school and a new career maybe?

[Edbear]

ahhhhs so its kfc. macdonalds etc fault for all the fatties around. its there so they must eat it? thats right they are all just victems

how available is meth tho? no one has ever offered it to me and ive never seen anyone selling it on the street corner

You both have a point. After a certain point, over eating becomes addictive and the person craves food, especially junk food. Food addiction needs to be treated like drug addiction. That's why many operations, like stomach stapling, fail. However you don't become addicted to junk food just by eating it, it goes back to the family environment where over eating is normal.

The difference with P is that it is highly addictive to start with and people are far more likely to become addicted from trying it.

Princess makes the same argument I do against tobacco companies. Both of them are produced by people who know full well the health consequences but produce these dangerous drugs deliberately to addict in order to make money. By definition, they are at least guilty of manslaughter, but also of murder.

The same law that allows a charge of vehicular manslaughter should be applied to drug manufacturers and pushers.

[Paul in NZ]

The difference with P is that it is highly addictive to start with and people are far more likely to become addicted from trying it.

.

Is it? No one answered my question earlier?

Frankly I know more about building a space rocket than I do about meth, other than the shock horror stuff in the papers. The conventional wisdom seems to be that you only need to look at a piece of meth and you are hooked for life. Given the amount of the stuff being produced and (apparently) consumed – surely that can’t be right???

If tradesmen are using and still turning up for work – is this stuff really that addictive? I mean I’m sure it’s highly addictive and for some, instantly so but is it any worse than the demon drugs from my generation? Is there such a thing as a casual user?? Do people ever get off the stuff?

As for why do we have so many issues with drugs and alcohol? Maybe because we are all trying to be mini Americans in a place that can never be a mini America (or the film and TV version of). NZ needs a stronger local identity and a belief that actually it’s OK to be that way?

[Ocean1]

If you think drug use is a 'bad behavior problem" then there is no point in continuing this conversation ..

So, now, it was society that made the choice to sell or use drugs?

Because that's what defines where the fault lies, innit? It's down to who made that choice? Anything else is just bullshit, a juvenile attempt to avoid the consequences of poor decisions.

Again: it'll be society's fault when it was society that made the choice, and like I said, that's not somewhere any adult wants to be, is it?

You've missed my point - deal with the social conditions that create the users ... before they become users .. Once someone is an addict it's pretty much too late - only 10% of addicts ever recover ..

If there's a "social condition" that creates users it's affluence and spare time.

Yeah - the way social welfare works in our current society is part of the wider social issues ..

Affluence and spare time created largely by social welfare.

Which sorta hints at the sort of change required of society to fix the problem, dunnit?

[jonbuoy]

I don't think a stogie (or even an expensive fat Cuban fire turd) with a single malt whisky turn their ingestors into psychotic paranoid wackos though.

Neither would smoking a joint or a few lines of Coke. Anything taken to excess leads to bad things. Walk around a city centre on a Friday/Saturday night and watch the alchohol fueled carnage. People turn to poor "quality" drugs because the higher "quality" drugs aren't easily available.

You can't stop people wanting to get "high" be it alchohol, nicotine or class a drugs. All have negative side effects taken to excess. If people are heavily using drugs/alchohol it's a mental health issue not a criminal issue. They aren't intending to set out to commit a crime - usually it's an addictive personality disorder or trying to block something out.

[mashman]

Is it? No one answered my question earlier?

Frankly I know more about building a space rocket than I do about meth, other than the shock horror stuff in the papers. The conventional wisdom seems to be that you only need to look at a piece of meth and you are hooked for life. Given the amount of the stuff being produced and (apparently) consumed – surely that can’t be right???

If tradesmen are using and still turning up for work – is this stuff really that addictive? I mean I’m sure it’s highly addictive and for some, instantly so but is it any worse than the demon drugs from my generation? Is there such a thing as a casual user?? Do people ever get off the stuff?

As for why do we have so many issues with drugs and alcohol? Maybe because we are all trying to be mini Americans in a place that can never be a mini America (or the film and TV version of). NZ needs a stronger local identity and a belief that actually it’s OK to be that way?

‘Crystal meth makes you a better driver,’ professor says. I'm trying to point out, that after a hard night on the piss, or a woman, something like crystal meth would help one get through the day quite comfortably. Expensive, but meh, if you have the cash and it's once in a while, or even every day for breakfast, meh.

Now, I've never taken crystal meth, but I get the idea from whatever experiences I've had in the past. The mind is prone to chemical persuasion, for instance, sugar works for kids. You can get smashed if you "abuse" things, and as with almost anything we hear the horror stories. We don't hear about the lots of peeps out there not in horror story territory. Gotta wonder what true user numbers are. (no need to rock any financial boat).

On that note, sorry BB, but I'm with Banditbandit. Society is so fucked up that it can't actually see that it's fucked up. There is no other way to put it really. Hardly surprising that mental health issues exist to a point where taking the edge off results in an addiction. Drugs have come downs (over a period of time, not just the next day) and each is different. Some are over and done with after a snooze. Some take a while and include anger. Very few people have the time and space to kick those habits, let alone is society equipped to handle it. Ach, money rant ensues with Resource Based Economy thrown in as a potential for addressing the issues yada yada yada...

[Akzle]

how available is meth tho? no one has ever offered it to me and ive never seen anyone selling it on the street corner

want crack nigga?