Death by Cheesecutter, again?

[Duncan74]

Let me change the analogy slightly and ask what would happen if median barriers were harmful to those of a certain faith? After all, religion is also a choice.

In that case then 'motorcyclists' would be campaigning for oiled roads and spiked bollards in the middle of blind corners. As to my understanding the one uniting feature of religions is that you're better off dead. Rather surprisingly I've not heard of a religion that says that once you're finished in this world, life isn't going to suddenly become a life of leisure surrounded by lovely ladies.

However, I suspect I'm not quite following the line of discussion that you were intending.

[Berries]

And there's the rub - a "safety" device that in practice is a hazard.

Like any barrier then?

I sure as fuck do not want to slide in to an armco barrier or the posts that support it. I particularly don't want to hit it a glancing blow and come off my bike and then rag doll along the top of it losing chunks of my body on the top of the wooden posts. I don't want to hit a wire rope barrier and I don't want to hit concrete.

I don't want to hit a tree or an oncoming vehicle either. I don't want to drift off the road at 100km/h and hit a culvert, or go cross country and lose the front end and bounce in to a strainer post. All barriers can kill you if you try hard enough, armco, wire rope and concrete. They can also stop you being killed. There are no stats but I would have thought that barriers, of all types, have saved more riders lives than killed them.


All this talk about cheese has made me hungry now............

[Big Dog]

Like any barrier then?

I sure as fuck do not want to slide in to an armco barrier or the posts that support it. I particularly don't want to hit it a glancing blow and come off my bike and then rag doll along the top of it losing chunks of my body on the top of the wooden posts. I don't want to hit a wire rope barrier and I don't want to hit concrete.

I don't want to hit a tree or an oncoming vehicle either. I don't want to drift off the road at 100km/h and hit a culvert, or go cross country and lose the front end and bounce in to a strainer post. All barriers can kill you if you try hard enough, armco, wire rope and concrete. They can also stop you being killed. There are no stats but I would have thought that barriers, of all types, have saved more riders lives than killed them.


All this talk about cheese has made me hungry now............

I agree.... mmmm grilled cheese... yep all this talk about cheese.

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[caspernz]

I agree.... mmmm grilled cheese... yep all this talk about cheese.

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I'd say judging by the hot air this topic generates, there have been cheese and onion toasted sandwiches consumed aplenty...

[Drew]

In that case then 'motorcyclists' would be campaigning for oiled roads and spiked bollards in the middle of blind corners. As to my understanding the one uniting feature of religions is that you're better off dead. Rather surprisingly I've not heard of a religion that says that once you're finished in this world, life isn't going to suddenly become a life of leisure surrounded by lovely ladies.

However, I suspect I'm not quite following the line of discussion that you were intending.

The Jewish are not convinced there is a heaven. Essentially they are all about the here and now.

[Maha]

Motorcycling wouldn't be what it is if there was nothing grizzle about. You will find that a large percentage just get on with it knowing that there are more things out there that can kill you more readily.

[Moi]

Motorcycling wouldn't be what it is if there was nothing grizzle about. You will find that a large percentage just get on with it knowing that there are more things out there that can kill you more readily.

[skippa1]

Its not guns that kill people, its people that kill people......

complete the following

its not motorcycles that kill people, its............

its not WRBs that kill people, its.........

[Akzle]

Its not guns that kill people, its people that kill people......

complete the following

its not motorcycles that kill people, its............

its not WRBs that kill people, its.........

ALIENS!! I fucken knew it.

[Maha]

Its not guns that kill people, its people that kill people......

complete the following

its not motorcycles that kill people, its............

its not WRBs that kill people, its.........

Stating the obvious is frowned upon and at times just floats straight over some coned shaped heads.

[Erelyes]

Why does the WRB data from Europe indicate a poor enough safety performance that they're removing it wholesale?

I think Moi's post following yours answers a lot of those questions, but the key point from his second link I took away is that some "... governments have either ceased installation or banned the barriers due to political pressure from lobby groups. But, there is no scientific research to show flexible barriers cause more deaths and serious injuries for motorcyclists. Swedish studies have shown there is actually a 40 – 50% reduction in risk of being killed for motorcyclists with wire rope safety barriers."

And, yet again: if roadside obstructions are responsible for 260 motorcycle deaths in 12 years then why the fuck are they continuing to install more of it?

Because those 260 motorcyclists would have otherwise hit something else (or oncoming traffic) and died anyhoo?
Because other motorcyclists hit a barrier, were OK, got up and rode away, with noone really being the wiser?
Because they saved hundreds, or thousands, of cager's lives?

Meh. If you want straight answers don't ask a fucking politician.

And apparently if you want an appeal to emotion with the ignorance of facts, ask a whinging biker.

It ain't fucking rocket surgery, they've lost sight of what they're supposed to be doing, their "preventative" measures are killing people.

No, they're killing themselves. Would Dee McMahon and Natalia Austin have fared better hitting oncoming traffic? Would the people they'd have hit, been better off?

Should we remove all the Rimutaka hill barriers too and let people just fly into the ravine? Maybe we should pass an amendment to the Road User Rule that they must shout 'Geronimo' upon doing so.

[James Deuce]

Should we remove all the Rimutaka hill barriers too and let people just fly into the ravine? Maybe we should pass an amendment to the Road User Rule that they must shout 'Geronimo' upon doing so.

The barriers are there to stop cars. Motorcyclists and trucks just whistle into the ravine. This is why when I crash on the Remutaka Pass road, I hurl myself and my bike into the cliff face for later retrieval.

[swbarnett]

Like any barrier then?

I sure as fuck do not want to slide in to an armco barrier or the posts that support it. I particularly don't want to hit it a glancing blow and come off my bike and then rag doll along the top of it losing chunks of my body on the top of the wooden posts. I don't want to hit a wire rope barrier and I don't want to hit concrete.

Totally agree. It's really a matter of degree. A safety measure that decreases safety pretty much defeats the purpose.

I don't want to hit a tree or an oncoming vehicle either. I don't want to drift off the road at 100km/h and hit a culvert, or go cross country and lose the front end and bounce in to a strainer post.

At least these haven't been put in for the express purpose of making the road safer.

All barriers can kill you if you try hard enough, armco, wire rope and concrete. They can also stop you being killed.

Agree on both points. The issue is whether we are safer with them than without. My own feeling (only opinion, no facts to back it up) is that we aren't.

There are no stats but I would have thought that barriers, of all types, have saved more riders lives than killed them.

This may well be true but it's no comfort passing Rangiriri on a dark, rainy night with a crawler in front and an massive truck approaching from behind trying hard to slow down and you have nowhere to go.

[skippa1]

At least these haven't been put in for the express purpose of making the road safer.

.

What about traffic light poles, speed restriction signs, lamp posts, stop signs, give way signs, concrete bridge abutments, general road signs, traffic islands etc.....all put in with the express purpose of making the road safer......the impact with any one of these items has resulted in a motorcyclist dying

[trufflebutter]

Leave acting like a fuckwit out of the equation for now, what probable causes will see a motorcyclist collide with a Wire Rope Barrier?