Mobil 98 petrol

[Oakie]

Good question. Some of their pumps had warning signs that they had ethanol in the fuel. Best not to use that if you have a plastic fuel tank.

Or a particular so sort of fuel line. Didn't Hyosung have a problem with fuels containing ethanol?

[GrayWolf]

It's happening. I have some Mobil gift cards to use up, and every place I've been in the last fortnight, including Kopu, had 98. Even some of the smaller stations have changed over.

Just checked the fine print on their website. The 98 is E10, so no more for the R1. Back to Ultimate.

Edit:. Read that wrong, it's just some Wellington stations that have E10. That's confusing!

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I think you'll find ALL 98 in NZ has 10% Ethanol content.

What I find REALLY bloody irritating with BP is all the garages have that ULTIMATE signage, even though not many actually carry 98 {ultimate}.

[caspernz]

I think you'll find ALL 98 in NZ has 10% Ethanol content.

What I find REALLY bloody irritating with BP is all the garages have that ULTIMATE signage, even though not many actually carry 98 {ultimate}.

That Ultimate signage can be annoying, as they also apply that Ultimate tag to their diesel nowadays, which confuses many of us...

[Moise]

I think you'll find ALL 98 in NZ has 10% Ethanol content.

What I find REALLY bloody irritating with BP is all the garages have that ULTIMATE signage, even though not many actually carry 98 {ultimate}.

I think it's just Gull 98 that is E10. There should be a label on the pump stating if the fuel contains ethanol.

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[old slider]

Thanks for alerting us Newbies about ethanol, I was running low on a recent Fat Bob ride and had to fill up at BP I used their 98 because I couldn't see any 95. hopefully its ok.

The price of fuel per litre still appears cheaper than buying water.

[Old Steve]

There is no specification for 98 octane petrol in New Zealand – take that from one who wrote the petrol specs when ULP was introduced, only specs for 91 ULP and 95 ULP. I think that originally BP separated 95 ULP deliveries which had a Research Octane of 98 and sold it as Ultimate 98. Marsden Point is a Motor Octane ( MON) limited refinery, they often have to give away RON to meet the Min of Energy petrol specs.

Petrol has two octane numbers, RON and MON, and these are usually about 10 octane numbers different, that’s the petrol’s ‘sensitivity’. But if the refinery is MON limited, then they often produce petrol with a higher RON and a wider sensitivity to meet the minimum MON spec. Normally 95 ULP would be 95 RON / 85 MON, but sometimes Marsden Point would produce 98 RON / 85 MON.

Most non-Auckland petrol now comes from overseas so the companies selling 98 octane petrol probably order specific product for that grade.

Incidentally, the USA generally specifies octane as average octane. USA Octane = RON + MON/2. If your Harley specifies 91 Octane, then it’s calling for 96RON / 86 MON – the equivalent of New Zealand 95 ULP. Don’t go putting NZ 91 ULP in a Harley which specifies 91 octane gasoline.

[old slider]

There is no specification for 98 octane petrol in New Zealand – take that from one who wrote the petrol specs when ULP was introduced, only specs for 91 ULP and 95 ULP. I think that originally BP separated 95 ULP deliveries which had a Research Octane of 98 and sold it as Ultimate 98. Marsden Point is a Motor Octane ( MON) limited refinery, they often have to give away RON to meet the Min of Energy petrol specs.

Petrol has two octane numbers, RON and MON, and these are usually about 10 octane numbers different, that’s the petrol’s ‘sensitivity’. But if the refinery is MON limited, then they often produce petrol with a higher RON and a wider sensitivity to meet the minimum MON spec. Normally 96 ULP would be 95 RON / 85 MON, but sometimes Marsden Point would produce 98 RON / 85 MON.

Most non-Auckland petrol now comes from overseas so the companies selling 98 octane petrol probably order specific product for that grade.

Incidentally, the USA generally specifies octane as average octane. USA Octane = RON + MON/2. If your Harley specifies 91 Octane, then it’s calling for 96RON / 86 MON – the equivalent of New Zealand 95 ULP. Don’t go putting NZ 91 ULP in a Harley which specifies 91 octane gasoline.

Awesome explanation, thanks Old Steve, I did use 91 and thought the bike ran reasonable, after changing to 95 the difference was quite noticeable, the best thing I purchased was the Screaming Eagle EFI super tuner, was a bit sceptical before the purchase, but not anymore, especially with having the altered exhaust and the CV removed.

[GrayWolf]

Thanks for alerting us Newbies about ethanol, I was running low on a recent Fat Bob ride and had to fill up at BP I used their 98 because I couldn't see any 95. hopefully its ok.

The price of fuel per litre still appears cheaper than buying water.

Read your bikes handbook... Yamaha seem to use seals/diaphragms that are sensitive to ethanol, and some metals can get 'corrosion'?? in the fuel system from ethanol {water content]???
Age of your bike is also a factor..

[Crasherfromwayback]

Try filling a bike with 35L+ ... highest bill in 5+ years was $85

Pah. Try an Jaguar XJR tank for size. That, and being supercharged, they drink it like I do Steinlager.

[Crasherfromwayback]

Don’t go putting NZ 91 ULP in a Harley which specifies 91 octane gasoline.

There are still plenty of people on this site that swear 91 is better for their bikes...

[old slider]

Read your bikes handbook... Yamaha seem to use seals/diaphragms that are sensitive to ethanol, and some metals can get 'corrosion'?? in the fuel system from ethanol {water content]???
Age of your bike is also a factor..

The American handbook says fuel octane ratings (R+M)/2 rating 91(95Ron)

Do not use fuel containing methanol as it damages the fuel system components and may cause engine damage.

Gasoline containing methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) As much as 15% MTBE/gasoline blends can be used in HD motorcycles.

Ethanol is a mixture of 10% ethanol (grain alcohol) and 90% unleaded gasoline. these gasoline ethanol blends can be used in HD motorcycles if the ethanol content does not exceed 10%

reformulated or oxygenated gasolines (designed to burn cleaner and evaporate less) your HD will run normally.

Do Not use race gas or octane boosters, this will damage your fuel system.

Some Gasoline blends may adversely affect the starting, driveability or fuel efficiency of your HD, if experience any of these problems try a different brand of gasoline or use a gasoline with a higher octane blend.

[Moise]

Under the current regs, NZ 95 is actually US 90, not 91.

If the petrol contains more than 1℅ ethanol, then the pump must be labelled with the maximum ethanol content. I've never seen such a label on an Ultimate pump in the upper North Island.

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[Old Steve]

Quite right Moise, the NZ 'premium' ULP spec was written around European specs, which gave an acceptable satisfaction rating for the NZ car fleet, so is 95 RON. Using NZ 95 ULP (RON + MON/2 octane 90) in a HD is better than using NZ 91 ULP (RON + MON/2 octane 86)

Regarding old slider's comments, yeah American Petrol/gasoline may not have such rigorous specifications as NZ petrol. In those states which have bad, low winter temperatures, if fuel is carried over from summer they mightl have volatility problems - that's problems with the evaporation of the fuel at low temperatures which affects starting. Here in NZ, volatility is set as Reid Vapour Pressure and alters in summer and winter petrol specs to account for the need for different low temperature evaporation characteristics between the seasons and even between the north and south.

Methanol does damage some rubber and plastic components, and some metals - there's one automotive aluminium alloy which was commonly used back in the 80s that corrodes at the rate of over 1000 mm/year in 100% methanol. However include 0.25% water in the methanol and the corrosion rate drops to an almost undetectable level. But cars and motorbikes have been developed to be more tolerant of methanol by using different hose materials and alloys.

If there is no corrosion problem with methanol, then it's unlikely to damage the engine if included in petrol at that 10% level. When I was involved with one of the oil company's lubricant technical centre back in the 90s, Indy cars ran on pure alcohol - they used 2.3 times the volume of fuel than if they'd been powered by petrol, but the cooling effect of the alcohol meant smaller and lighter cooling systems and because of the higher octane number of the alcohol fuel they could run higher boost pressures.

Gasoline containing methyl tertiary butyl ether (MTBE) were introduced in cities in the USA where pollution was a problem, it's an oxygenate (as is alcohol) and reduced exhaust emissions. There was discussion to allow the inclusion of MTBE in NZ petrol some time later than the fuel specs were written. I don't know if it was included in the NZ petrol specs, at the time tit was thought that MTBE wouldn't be needed for pollution control in NZ but that MTBE petrols might be available for import so the spec should include the provision for including it. MTBE is slightly oxygenated hydrocarbon, it won't do any damage to the fuel system or engine.

In the USA, mixtures of ethanol (grain alcohol) and gasoline are called "gasohol", ethanol doesn't corrode the fuel system or engine metals and ethanol is subsidised in gasohol in the States to support grain farmers. A proportion of ethanol in petrol will lower the thermal content of the fuel (ethanol is ethane with an oxygen atom included in it - C2H5OH), 10% may lower the power from a gasohol by a fraction of a percent as that 10% has already been partially burnt already.

"Some Gasoline blends may adversely affect the starting, driveability or fuel efficiency of your HD, if experience any of these problems try a different brand of gasoline or use a gasoline with a higher octane blend." Less strict fuel regulations and lower vapour pressure from old fuel or using summer fuel in winter would give this effect. Petrol is a complex mix of a wide range of hydrocarbons, light ends give volatility/startibility, mid ends gives responsiveness/driveability, heavy ends give power and fuel economy (not at the same time, power or fuel economy). Different refineries may vary their mix of light, medium and heavy ends depending on the crude oil they receive, the refinery configuration or their market.

[Moise]

Total oxygenates are limited to 1℅, unless it is labelled as an ethanol blend. So NZ petrol is limited to a maximum of 1℅ MTBE. Environmentally, MTBE is not a Good Thing to have in petrol and I understand it has more or less been phased out in the US. You certainly wouldn't want to add it to E10.

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[Frodo]

Would be good to get the ethanol content clarified. This causes problems with nylon tanks. I previously owned a 1000DS Multistrada and the length of the tank causes big problems when the tank swells. A solution is to coat the inside of the tank (Caswell).
My Aprilia Shiver also has a plastic tank (I think nylon) and ethanol causes swelling, so I avoid ethanol fuels. Interestingly my previous Aprilia Pegaso Trail also had a plastic tank and seemed to run best on an ethanol blend and the tank didn't swell in the 100,000km I rode it.

I understand that pumps must be labelled if ethanol is more than a certain amount. The Mobil station at Paremata used to supply 91 (3% ethanol) and 98 (10% ethanol) - there were warning signs to this effect. I presume (hope) that they will including signs on the pumps if the new blends contain ethanol.

Edit: Just looked at the Mobil website: https://www.mobil.co.nz/en/synergy-fuels

"At selected service stations in wider Wellington region, Extra Unleaded and Synergy 1000 may contain up to 3% ethanol and Supreme+ and Synergy 8000 will contain up to 10% ethanol. May not be suitable for all vehicle engines, check with the manufacturer before use."

Confused?
- 91 "may" contain 3% ethanol and 98 "will" contain 10% ethanol.
- What are the "selected" stations? I won't be selecting them if they add ethanol!