The flu shot - your thoughts?

[Berries]

The 'flu vaccine will NOT make you sick. You will however become autistic.

Excellent, I like painting.

[FatMax]

Were any races of people exterminated by the same people that make the flu shot?
Does anyone have any evidence?
Ooops, wrong thread, sorry....

[R650R]

Never had it. Work in large workplace where it is available free, one guy out of two that took it in dept of about 20 people was quite off colour for few days.
Have had real flu couple times, my own immune system dealt with it ok, and prob dealt with it before other times to.

See that's one thing you never hear the medical 'industry' talk about, the measure of natural immunity. They make a big hysteria if say 10 people get chicken pox. But through various mechanisms those ten people will have exposed thousands of others before being sick enough to stay home yet it doesn't go full pandemic on us like they try to scare us.

Anyway the flu shot is made in advance at a guess of what will be the several prevalent strains six months before hand. However viruses constantly mutate, that's how we often get better as the virus mutates into weaker strain as it reproduces. There is ample evidence of various toxic additives (adjuvants) added to pad the mix out and preserve it etc, your injecting rubbish direct into your body.
A real vaccine should be administered orally like the polio used to be. The most important sentry cells that detect hostile virus and bacteria are in the mucous membrances of your mouth and throat, they then relase various enzymnes or signals to tell the white blood cells to get their shit together or similar game plan etc...

Humans and animals suruved many things for many years before the for-profit medical industry arrived....

[SVboy]

I work in a germ ridden environment and my employer pays for the shot, therefore I have it annually. I am fairly confident I have avoided any really bad flus for years, but did have a flu causing three days off work this winter. I hate any medication and avoid if possible, but I see this as the lesser of two evils, given a nasty flus potential to cause long term damage.

[Grumph]

I usually have a quarterly prescription renewal due around the start of winter. I always get offered the flu shot.
I always answer, no thanks, I've just sat in your waiting room for half an hour, pretty sure i've been exposed thanks...

Haven't had the flu for about 10 years now.

[caspernz]

I'd suggest you're erroneously attributing it to the flu shot; well unless you got the shot while you had the cold, I don't see how the two could be related.

Oh I agree with your logic, just odd how my number of days feeling like shite is way up in years with the flu jab...

I've always had one.

Meh - successive employers have paid for them.

Yeah well, it's on offer at my place of work as well, just finding a variety of responses to getting the jab, hence my initial question.

Worth a shot, certainally seems to alleviate the worst effects I used to suffer

Cool, so you're a believer then, certainly glad to hear it works nicely for some!

Get 'em free every year Rob with no apparent side effects. Never used to bother but 5 years ago, I got the real 'flu and it really knocked me about. Started getting the jabs after that and whether it's pure chance or the vaccines actually working, no problems since.

Cheers Geoff, yes I've had the real 'flu several times in Europe as a youngster, not a nice week at all...

The flu shot is only ever for the worst 3 or 4 viruses around at the time. The ones that'll knock you over for a couple of weeks with potential to kill. It won't do anything for the minor ones. It's like having an armed guard around who can see and destroy the guy with the shotgun or carving knife who is after you but won't do anything about the guy who comes up and kicks you in the shin or calls you names.

Those flus where you feel crap for three days ... that's not what the vaccine is for.

Of course, that's more or less my take on it as well. I've always wondered about the vaccine having to be based on bugs that in reality have already passed thru... So to use your bodyguard analogy, the jab would show up and shoot the bad guy after I've already copped a few slugs? Nah just joking, good to hear the variety of opinions and experiences.

Were any races of people exterminated by the same people that make the flu shot?
Does anyone have any evidence?
Ooops, wrong thread, sorry....

Oh we'll leave that angle for a day when I crack open a good bottle of single malt and smoke a cigar with a few of the bros...

Never had it. Work in large workplace where it is available free, one guy out of two that took it in dept of about 20 people was quite off colour for few days.
Have had real flu couple times, my own immune system dealt with it ok, and prob dealt with it before other times to.

See that's one thing you never hear the medical 'industry' talk about, the measure of natural immunity. They make a big hysteria if say 10 people get chicken pox. But through various mechanisms those ten people will have exposed thousands of others before being sick enough to stay home yet it doesn't go full pandemic on us like they try to scare us.

Anyway the flu shot is made in advance at a guess of what will be the several prevalent strains six months before hand. However viruses constantly mutate, that's how we often get better as the virus mutates into weaker strain as it reproduces. There is ample evidence of various toxic additives (adjuvants) added to pad the mix out and preserve it etc, your injecting rubbish direct into your body.
A real vaccine should be administered orally like the polio used to be. The most important sentry cells that detect hostile virus and bacteria are in the mucous membrances of your mouth and throat, they then relase various enzymnes or signals to tell the white blood cells to get their shit together or similar game plan etc...

Humans and animals suruved many things for many years before the for-profit medical industry arrived....

Yes Ray, natural immunity is a valid point. In order for us to build up immunity to something nasty, we first need to be exposed to it. But if we believe the flu jab propaganda then the jab achieves exactly that. Or maybe it's as simple as just giving us natural immunity to the worst of the active strains floating around at the time?

I just find it odd how the years I haven't had the flu jab I've had the distinct impression I've been better off in terms of off colour days, as illogical as this assertion may seem on the surface...

I work in a germ ridden environment and my employer pays for the shot, therefore I have it annually. I am fairly confident I have avoided any really bad flus for years, but did have a flu causing three days off work this winter. I hate any medication and avoid if possible, but I see this as the lesser of two evils, given a nasty flus potential to cause long term damage.

Yep, and on the surface your logic makes perfect sense.


Mmmm, so where does this leave me? My guess is just to keep getting the jab to boost my defences as the bank of natural immunity keeps improving...

[Akzle]

haven't injected any shit non-recreationally since i passed the age of reason.

I've been ill twice in the last decade. probably same or less for the ones preceeding.

never have the sniffles. no longer suffer migraines or headaches, and my autism is top notch.

[Virago]

Humans and animals suruved many things for many years before the for-profit medical industry arrived....

Many millions of them didn't...

[george formby]

I'm still keen on washing my hands and avoiding snotty, sneezy, people as much as possible. I reckon the jab is like hi viz, it only needs to work once to pay for itself. But meanwhile..

[Bassmatt]

Haven't read the thread, but the fact is very very few people catch actual influenza.

“[According to CDC statistics], ‘influenza and pneumonia’ took 62,034 lives in 2001—61,777 of which were attributable to pneumonia and 257 to flu, and in only 18 cases was the flu virus positively identified.”

A little more info here http://www.bmj.com/content/331/7529/1412
Plenty more on the net

So why would you bother?

[Ruahine]

Anyway the flu shot is made in advance at a guess of what will be the several prevalent strains six months before hand.

Correct.

However viruses constantly mutate, that's how we often get better as the virus mutates into weaker strain as it reproduces.

No, we get better because following infection, over time, our body is able to mount an effective immune response and clear the virus. While viruses do mutate, these are generally in the surface coat proteins to help it evade the immune system. The rate of mutation is not usually high enough to make a change in the viral strain within the time course of an individual infection.


There is ample evidence of various toxic additives (adjuvants) added to pad the mix out and preserve it etc, your injecting rubbish direct into your body.

Most vaccines contain a mixture of preservatives and antibiotics to prevent bacterial or fungal contamination. While there is a lot of emotive rubbish written about these, they are proven to be safe. Rarely some people can have allergic reactions, this is mostly around the egg proteins contained in vaccines made in eggs.

Adjuvants are added to increase the immune response to the vaccine, and so improve the efficacy of the immunisation. A commonly used adjuvant is aluminium. However most of the seasonal flu vaccines do not require adjuvants.


A real vaccine should be administered orally like the polio used to be.

Not sure what you mean by this.


The most important sentry cells that detect hostile virus and bacteria are in the mucous membrances of your mouth and throat,

This is not true. Mucosal immunity is no more "important" than any other. Your immune system works as a cohesive system. Polio was given as an oral vaccine as it was an attenuated live vaccine and polio infects through the mouth.

While the flu virus does infect through the mucosal membranes, the injected flu vaccine is either dead or is bits of the viral coat protein, it is unable to infect and is therefore not given orally. This does not mean its not a "real vaccine".

All vaccines have differing levels of effectiveness, this is not related to whether they are live or not but around their ability to induce immune memory in the patient.

FYI there is a live flu vaccine given nasally. Not sure if it is available in NZ but it has been used in the UK.

[eldog]

Not necessarily a true believer in vaccines, but it has certainly helped over the last couple of years I have had a shot compared to previous ones.

I have seen other succumb to the 'flu while i have only had relatively mild symptoms.

Yet I suffer from sinus, sniffles, runny nose, head aches as my job requires me to go from a air con office to a workshop (non air con) environment. I suffer these almost daily.

Most noticeable those who have kids of the school age who bring in all sorts of maladies and pass them on.

Surprisingly I have never had a sick day off work EVER.

Didnt realise Polio was transmitted by mouth - more research required for me.
My grandfather suffered from it and almost every other disease by the sounds of what the rellies tell me.

[pritch]

I think there's a basic misunderstanding of what the flu is. What it is, is serious. When there is a flu pandemic people die. Lots of them. After the end of WW1 many of the Kiwi soldiers waiting in the UK to come home became infected during the epidemic that occurred at that time and died.

As has been mentioned the WHO decides in advance which three or so strains will be included in the vaccination in any given year. If there is a different strain becomes an epidemic it may be that the vaccination will give only limited protection.

Ignoring the antibiotics, the mercury, the egg products and other additives that may cause allergic reactions, it's a shame they have to use dog kidneys. If they used sheep or cattle kidneys from animals that had been slaughtered anyway that'd be one thing, but no. Just remember when you get your jab that one of man's best friends gave his or her all so that you could have it.

[eldog]

Never knew about the dog related source......

things we take for granted never ceases to amaze me.

A few people i know recently have had pneumonia recently, i have seen the effects of double pneumonia, i really dont think they realise how close they were to not coming back.
They still carry on the way they were, no change in regime

[Ruahine]

Ignoring the antibiotics, the mercury, the egg products and other additives, it's a shame they have to use dog kidneys. If they used sheep or cattle kidneys from animals that had been slaughtered anyway that'd be one thing, but no. Just remember when you get your jab that one of man's best friends gave his or her all so that you could have it.

Some vaccines are prepared using an immortalised animal cell lines such as Madin Darby Canine Kidney cells (MDCK). While these were originally isolated from a dog kidney, the cells are grown in vitro. No further dog kidneys are needed. I think MDCK cells were isolated back in the 1950's.

So rest assured, you aren't killing a dog every time you get a vaccination.

There is a certain human cancer cell line that was isolated from a lady called Henrietta Lacks (called HeLa). While she died many years ago, scientists still use her cell line in cancer research today.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Im...enrietta_Lacks