The American (USA) 2016 presidential elections thread?

[pzkpfw]

So if the massacre didn't happen, what were the two guys arrested for?

Are you kidding?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.f4f26c8ac7f7

(
This is part of the cleverness - Trump supporters will say "they were 'bad guys' anyway, so what does it matter if the facts got a bit muddled?".
)

[pritch]

So if the massacre didn't happen, what were the two guys arrested for?

They were collecting weapons to send back to Iraq. There was no massacre, nobody was even injured. This was on our TV news last night.

Ocean's comment about Trump's unbelievable ignorance is on the mark. Overnight Trump tweeted about the "so called judge" that stopped his muslim ban executive order.

Trump is completely ignorant of the relationship between the executive and the courts, and how the courts are supposed be a safeguard against abuse of power by politicians.

Very few in his administration even know how government is supposed to work, the few who do appear to have a battle to educate the others. Trump doesn't understand that he is not a dictator. Yet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...aborative_1_na

[Katman]

[Laava]

They were collecting weapons to send back to Iraq. There was no massacre, nobody was even injured. This was on our TV news last night.

Ocean's comment about Trump's unbelievable ignorance is on the mark. Overnight Trump tweeted about the "so called judge" that stopped his muslim ban executive order.

Trump is completely ignorant of the relationship between the executive and the courts, and how the courts are supposed be a safeguard against abuse of power by politicians.

Very few in his administration even know how government is supposed to work, the few who do appear to have a battle to educate the others. Trump doesn't understand that he is not a dictator. Yet.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...aborative_1_na

K, haven't seen the news fir a coupla days and to be honest, anythng mentioning trump seems to dull my hearing quite a bit. You are right, there is a lot trump doesn't understand, starting with basic communication. He is shitting in his own nest, sooner or later he is just gonna flush himself out.

[husaberg]

Aye, the fly in the ointment there being "what Trump believes".

His ignorance is simply unbelievable, even a very basic review of history would indicate that market protectionism produces exactly the opposite result to what he's suggesting: http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Econ...hina-trade-war

US trade policy has always been about bullying smaller markets into line, it's what their whole standard of living is based on, it'll be interesting to see how the new big kids on the block respond to those tactics.

His ignorance is will continue to get wors, mostly e as he has surrounded himself exclusively with “Yes” men that will continue feeding with ego with "alternative facts", they will do this simply because as his out of control ego won't accept he is thought of as being a f-wit by most of the world. .....Sounds exactly like a few KB Narcissistic trolls, only i guess he is clearly more successful.

[Ocean1]

Trump is completely ignorant of the relationship between the executive and the courts, and how the courts are supposed be a safeguard against abuse of power by politicians.

One of the key differences compared to the Westminster model: non-partisan public service entities, including the judiciary.

Which is probably a bigger actual threat to it's perception as a democratic institution than the extra separation from its electorate caused by the use of electoral colleges.

I'm not even sure how they justify the continued use of the distorted Westminster split house system, it no longer seems to add anything by way of the original's safeguards, simply completely cripples the government of any divided term.

Perhaps our setup isn't so bad, eh?

[Ocean1]

His ignorance is will continue to get wors, mostly e as he has surrounded himself exclusively with “Yes” men that will continue feeding with ego with "alternative facts", they will do this simply because as his out of control ego won't accept he is thought of as being a f-wit by most of the world. .....Sounds exactly like a few KB Narcissistic trolls, only i guess he is clearly more successful.

Aye. If there's a culture that examplifies the Dunning Kruger effect the USA is it, and if there's a particular example he's got to be it.

https://hbr.org/2014/07/the-dangers-of-confidence

[pritch]

His ignorance is will continue to get wors, mostly e as he has surrounded himself exclusively with “Yes” men that will continue feeding with ego with "alternative facts", they will do this simply because as his out of control ego won't accept he is thought of as being a f-wit by most of the world. .....Sounds exactly like a few KB Narcissistic trolls, only i guess he is clearly more successful.

I'm not sure if he is *that* successful. One theory is that he only stood as a candidate to increase his bargaining power for his "Apprentice" TV show. It all got rather out of hand as he never actually intended to be the Republican candidate let alone President.

Another theory which may or may not be correct - but seems to make sense - is that he believes what he sees on TV. He doesn't read, nor does he seem to be at all curious, and that's a worry because his channel of choice appears to be FOX News. Several times he has posted an angry tweet within minutes of the same topic being mentioned on FOX.

There have been instances where members of his team have gone on TV apparently in opposition to him. People wondered what was going on. Now it seems they do that to get his attention, as their comments will get more credibility with him because he saw it on TV.

It's OK though, he's only the leader of the free world.

[Grumph]

One of the key differences compared to the Westminster model: non-partisan public service entities, including the judiciary.

Which is probably a bigger actual threat to it's perception as a democratic institution than the extra separation from its electorate caused by the use of electoral colleges.

I'm not even sure how they justify the continued use of the distorted Westminster split house system, it no longer seems to add anything by way of the original's safeguards, simply completely cripples the government of any divided term.

Perhaps our setup isn't so bad, eh?

I see one of Gareth Morgan's ideas is an upper house - to be at least 50% maori....How to cripple any government IMO.

What does seriously worry me about the US at present is the rise and rise of religious fervour since the election.
The crazies have come out of the religious closet. So much for separation of church and state.

[Ocean1]

I see one of Gareth Morgan's ideas is an upper house - to be at least 50% maori....How to cripple any government IMO.

What does seriously worry me about the US at present is the rise and rise of religious fervour since the election.
The crazies have come out of the religious closet. So much for separation of church and state.

It's to an electorate's advantage to separate state and church only if most of 'em aren't church members.

The US electorate self-identifies as 80% Christian. 60% of them believe the bible is historically somewhat accurate. 30% of them believe the bible is factually accurate.

Go right ahead and be as worried as you like, but the religious closet over there has always been quite open, they've got the government they wanted, make no mistake.

[Brian d marge]

It's in an electorate's advantage to separate state and church only if most of 'em aren't church members.

The US electorate self-identifies as 80% Christian. 60% of them believe the bible is historically somewhat accurate. 30% of them believe the bible is factually accurate.

Go right ahead and be as worried as you like, but the religious closet over there has always been quite open, they've got the government they wanted, make no mistake.

I'mafraid ocean is right , not the people , the people have been duped as usual. but as far as I can find out , the people in power havent changed, since georgie boy ,
here is trumps university
http://news.fordham.edu/tag/trump-presidency/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...league-school/

http://www.georgetown.edu/clinton-lectures.html

and I think, they are just as interbred as the British ,,, I heard somewhere that trumps dna goes back to one of the Frankish families of Europe as does Hitlarys
but I havent had time to look into that...so just hear say atm

[husaberg]

Aye. If there's a culture that examplifies the Dunning Kruger effect the USA is it, and if there's a particular example he's got to be it.
https://hbr.org/2014/07/the-dangers-of-confidence

He. along with the kardasians and Paris Hilton Zsa Zsa Gabor etc etc is a textbook example of all that is wrong with the world.

I'm not sure if he is *that* successful. One theory is that he only stood as a candidate to increase his bargaining power for his "Apprentice" TV show. It all got rather out of hand as he never actually intended to be the Republican candidate let alone President.

Another theory which may or may not be correct - but seems to make sense - is that he believes what he sees on TV. He doesn't read, nor does he seem to be at all curious, and that's a worry because his channel of choice appears to be FOX News. Several times he has posted an angry tweet within minutes of the same topic being mentioned on FOX.

There have been instances where members of his team have gone on TV apparently in opposition to him. People wondered what was going on. Now it seems they do that to get his attention, as their comments will get more credibility with him because he saw it on TV.

It's OK though, he's only the leader of the free world.

That all actually seems pretty creditable given his demeanour and past history, more interesting is his propensity of personally attacking the messenger rather than the message.
Which suggests he is emotionally stunted, prone to anger outbursts and personal attacks
This is something you would expect from a total narcissist, that has barely evolved past a 10 child’s emotional development.

One thing i would suggest about his reliance and preoccupation with Fox News is most likely because they often have attractive (in an american sense)female presenters.

Often it seems in short skirts

[PrincessBandit]

K, haven't seen the news fir a coupla days and to be honest, anythng mentioning trump seems to dull my hearing quite a bit. You are right, there is a lot trump doesn't understand, starting with basic communication. He is shitting in his own nest, sooner or later he is just gonna flush himself out.

I reckon it's all one almighty chess game and Trump's election to POTUS is just one in a loooong set of chess moves that perhaps he doesn't even realise. Or more likely wouldn't see even if it smacked him between the eyes.
My call is that the string pullers are all quietly working to set him up to "fire"/ impeach so they can put who they wanted in the top chair all along.

[Katman]

That all actually seems pretty creditable given his demeanour and past history, more interesting is his propensity of personally attacking the messenger rather than the message.
Which suggests he is emotionally stunted, prone to anger outbursts and personal attacks
This is something you would expect from a total narcissist, that has barely evolved past a 10 child’s emotional development.

https://goo.gl/images/Yq5lNI

[husaberg]

I reckon it's all one almighty chess game and Trump's election to POTUS is just one in a loooong set of chess moves that perhaps he doesn't even realise. Or more likely wouldn't see even if it smacked him between the eyes.
My call is that the string pullers are all quietly working to set him up to "fire"/ impeach so they can put who they wanted in the top chair all along.

Sorry without first changing the constitution, i can't see how that’s a viable theory
The pecking order works like this
1 Vice President... Mike Pence
2 Speaker of the House of Representatives..... Paul Ryan
3 President pro tempore of the Senate.... Orrin Hatch
4 Secretary of State ...Rex Tillerson
5 Secretary of the Treasury.. Adam Szubin
6 Secretary of Defense... James Mattis
None of those ran for the presidential nomination.
Interstingly number 5 is actually a Democrat while 6 is an independant.