New crash study.

[eldog]

That's really strange that someone would say that because some insurance companies give discounts etc to customers who complete Ride Forever courses. Why would they do that if riders "don't learn anything"?

maybe insurance companies fund these courses?

not every one is able to complete a course. even on here......

[RDJ]

this site seriously needs a sarcasm button.

Very. Much. So.

[granstar]

Just use yer keyboard ...

[caspernz]

maybe insurance companies fund these courses?

not every one is able to complete a course. even on here......

You mean not everyone WANTS to complete one of these courses, for they already know in advance they won't learn anything....

[eldog]

You mean not everyone WANTS to complete one of these courses, for they already know in advance they won't learn anything....

Maybe its toooo expensive , or they are scared they 'just might' learn something.

Hell, if they did a course and they didn't learn anything, then they did learn something - they are doing it right.
That's why some courses are graduated to suit different skill sets/requirements.

Its obvious if you going to be a commuter you don't need to do a track day. But some courses would suit people to run them on a track, not to race but to learn lines, cornering techniques without the usual street furniture and other idiots.

I don't believe that every accident is avoidable, but there are many signs that may help us to recognize the possibility of one happening. Finding out about these signs is easiest done on places like the web, KB, magazines, skill courses, riding more often, riding and talking with others. Its these small things that may help someone else avoid a possible pitfall.

eg Like newbies parking next to a curb/drain, it can be a long way down before your foot touches the ground, if you miss the curb. Sure if you have been riding forever (pun intended) you think nothing of it but when your in an unfamiliar place, you remember what to avoid/look out for.

I have half read the full cash study - there are already a few things I think they could improve on(relative to NZ). Once I have read the second half, I will see then what I think. So far reasonably good effort.

[george formby]

I'm trying to do something more constructive but can't resist chasing the ambulance.

You struck a chord with me eldog, c flat. After many happy years riding big miles in any and all conditions I ended up riding with a novice. Some of the skills required for her test were an exercise in sphincter tension, u turns, 360's, controlled braking.... I'd never thought about it before. Never thought that such control and technique were within my ability on a bike with it's own gravity. Blissfully riding along in ignorance..

I'm happy to say we found a great mentor and friend through KB and can now, enjoyably, handle our bikes far better.

All those miles did teach me a lot of road craft and hazard awareness but I was quite stunned at the observation and awareness of our instructor on the pro rider gold course. Things like tire marks crossing the centre line on a corner indicating how many cars run wide, bent reflector posts coming into a corner.. Quite a few more. His knowledge of the landscape was exceptional.

It really brought home to me that riding is a never ending learning (and leaning) curve if your so inclined to improve.

[Zedder]

maybe insurance companies fund these courses?

As far as I know, ACC fund them in the first instance. However, if insurance companies give customer discounts etc then it's an indirect funding.

[Zedder]

You mean not everyone WANTS to complete one of these courses, for they already know in advance they won't learn anything....

Yes, those with closed minds.

[eldog]

Those who are CLOSED

[caspernz]

As far as I know, ACC fund them in the first instance. However, if insurance companies give customer discounts etc then it's an indirect funding.

Yep, ACC heavily subsidise the Rideforever series. Plus most insurance companies will discount premium and/or reduce excess. Bonus is reduced chance of "enjoying" hospital food via improved skills.

[Zedder]

Those who are CLOSED

That's more about not letting people know you or get close to you, rather than not being open to new ideas etc.

[Zedder]

Yep, ACC heavily subsidise the Rideforever series. Plus most insurance companies will discount premium and/or reduce excess. Bonus is reduced chance of "enjoying" hospital food via improved skills.

Pretty damn good deal then.

[eldog]

That's more about not letting people know you or get close to you, rather than not being open to new ideas etc.

You are correct. I hadn't finished but got caught up with something else here at work.

I have to deal with an Autistic child and often I wonder if their minds are like closed off.
Any new information is like a blinding light, they have to process stuff and seem to deposit it into cabinets (in their mind)
Going to any new place, especially one that has a lot of new/unfamiliar stuff can set them off-OMG.

I have been approaching this one very slowly, and give only limited information so as not to overload the subject.

Can be strange the way they watch you but not look at you, and how they sneak a look once they are familiar (well sort off) and feel more comfortable.
Everything has a place and if order is OK then things go smoothly.... The web has helped, but policing what sites and when can be difficult. Doesn't understand "NO"

[Berries]

Yes, those with closed minds.

Perhaps.

I think it was 1990 when I got my KMX 125, progressing to 'proper' bikes via a GPZ500. Got away with it while young, dumb and the rest of it. Have ridden ever since, all year, all weathers. Through work I had to do a defensive driving course once but apart from that I have had no formal training and nothing bike specific. Will I do any training? Unless it resulted in a reduction in the ACC levy I doubt it.

I have a pretty good understanding of what causes crashes and have picked up what not to do over the years. I do some of them sometimes, hell, that is the thrill of riding a bike to me. I don't expect to crash because I know crashing hurts and I for one don't want to be in a wheelchair or leave my kids with no father. I say I don't expect to crash but the winters down here are such that on some days I might make the wrong choice and ride when there is a bit too much ice around but buses suck arse, especially when you are sitting there and see someone on a bike. I will try my best but there is always a possibility I will drop it one winter. That would appear to me to be my greatest risk.

I don't profess to know everything but perhaps I do have a closed mind as I cannot see what I could learn from someone else that would make me a safer rider. I am fully aware of the consequences of getting it wrong so ride accordingly. 95% of the time anyway. It's that 5% that will catch you out and no amount of training will help there. But that 5% is why I have a GSXR rather than a GN.

[Zedder]

Perhaps.

I think it was 1990 when I got my KMX 125, progressing to 'proper' bikes via a GPZ500. Got away with it while young, dumb and the rest of it. Have ridden ever since, all year, all weathers. Through work I had to do a defensive driving course once but apart from that I have had no formal training and nothing bike specific. Will I do any training? Unless it resulted in a reduction in the ACC levy I doubt it.

I have a pretty good understanding of what causes crashes and have picked up what not to do over the years. I do some of them sometimes, hell, that is the thrill of riding a bike to me. I don't expect to crash because I know crashing hurts and I for one don't want to be in a wheelchair or leave my kids with no father. I say I don't expect to crash but the winters down here are such that on some days I might make the wrong choice and ride when there is a bit too much ice around but buses suck arse, especially when you are sitting there and see someone on a bike. I will try my best but there is always a possibility I will drop it one winter. That would appear to me to be my greatest risk.

I don't profess to know everything but perhaps I do have a closed mind as I cannot see what I could learn from someone else that would make me a safer rider. I am fully aware of the consequences of getting it wrong so ride accordingly. 95% of the time anyway. It's that 5% that will catch you out and no amount of training will help there. But that 5% is why I have a GSXR rather than a GN.

Fair enough. Have you read any motorcycle training books?