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Thread: ESE's works engine tuner

  1. #27556
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbiplane View Post
    Thank Norman, Frits and others. I found here many interesting ideas. We are small company which works like "engine atelier" for small aircrafts, UAV and other applicarion where weight and fuel economy are vital. To the moment numerous codes like ~bimotion ~mota ~Ricardo Wave ~Lotus concept
    gives irreal results on boxer 2-strokes engines I produce. So one of my present objectives is to make parametric CAD model linked with CFD simulation of 2-stroke engine complete from intake to exhaust. I believe will sucseed in ~4+ month by myself and understand what have to be changed.
    That is a nice-looking engine, Jbiplane.
    It takes me back about 20 years when I designed a similar ultralight-powerplant. You may recognize some of the weight-saving ideas .
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #27557
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwePatrick View Post
    Correct!

    Already with methanol only you get same effect with having choke pulled to long.
    But one can use it for faster warmup, let it 'sniff' on the runaway for a while.
    Then engine is more responsive quicker due to heat has started to build faster inside cylinder.
    I noticed if starting engine with no choke it spits unburnt fuel through the tailpipe for a long time.
    Using choke shorten this a lot.

    I also noticed that the mixture it gave as much power as possible on, is way to rich on a cold engine.
    Somewhat 'other way around' then a petrol engine =)

    Start without choke, pull up the choke, let it touch the runaway, press down choke again.
    I gained a lot of time doing this, also saved fuel

    A Methanol and/or Nitro could do really well with a termoregulated radiator also.
    As it need heat to burn everything properly.
    If not having heat, the mixture it produces max power with is actually keeping it from getting warm fast.
    Can be really frustrating with dragracing, the engine must produce power quickly.

    I did actually a experiment on my dyno.
    I pulled through the gears, started on 1st with cold engine.
    On 1st it gave only ~46hp
    And for every gear the power raised.
    On 5th gear i had 68Hp, that´s actually 22hp loss at the most important place in dragracing,, the start.

    Pipetemp does also play a part in this, but it is much much more noticable with methanol.

    Another experiment i did was to reduce powerjet to get it to warm up faster.
    I did nine 5th gear pulls in a row.
    And when i saw the exhausttemp raise i turned out the powerjet again.
    And yes,. it gained power.

    I dunno actually if it was vaporization or fuel actually releases it´s oxygen when engine is in desired working temp.
    But it needs more fuel when it´s hot =)
    The choke technique does work well for methanol and not too too much nitro.

  3. #27558
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbiplane View Post
    We are small company which works like "engine atelier" for small aircrafts, UAV and other applicarion where weight and fuel economy are vital.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    There you are TZ, maybe a successful 2T EFI system, looks like an injector port in that throttle body.
    Factual Facts are based on real Fact and Universal Truths. Alternative Facts by definition are not based on Truth.

  4. #27559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lbracing View Post
    As promised , a couple pictures of what I do .

    Pistons are machined out of 4032 . From 50cc to 140cc .

    Cylinder with removable transfer port cover . Intake is controled by piston port . You cant really see it but the exhaust port floor is a nice convex shape . 5TH port is fed by a hole in piston , I am working on a better set up for my next engine .

    Carburetor is based on walbro wb diaphragm for spacing reasons . Maximum venturi I can put in them with this design is 34mm . I use them on everything under 100cc .

    Just a random toroidal shaped head in the works.


    Attachment 333042Attachment 333037Attachment 333038Attachment 333039Attachment 333040Attachment 333041
    indeed that's some nice work . is this happen to be one of your saws ?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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  5. #27560
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    Quote Originally Posted by nitro2tfx View Post
    Top fuel cars are highly supercharged and actually run lower compression ratios than that.

    Naturally aspirated nitro engines, running straight nitro from the can (no methanol), run compression ratios of 11 to 12:1 and do not experience any detonation, despite the very large displacement and low revs, compared to the engines being discussed in this thread.
    do you know of any rules of thumb regarding com ratio and nitro percentage in a 2t or is it just trial and error to see what works ? theres almost no info about 2t and nitro that ive been able to find so far

  6. #27561
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    Quote Originally Posted by peewee View Post
    do you know of any rules of thumb regarding com ratio and nitro percentage in a 2t or is it just trial and error to see what works ? theres almost no info about 2t and nitro that ive been able to find so far
    Bell............................
    http://iheartstella.com/resources/ma...nce-Tuning.pdf
    Alcohol fuel is permitted in most categories of speedway and dirt flat-track racing. 117
    Two Stroke Performance Tuning
    Both methanol (methyl alcohol) and ethanol (ethyl alcohol) have an octane rating by the Research method of 140-160, depending on mixture richness. Therefore these fuels can be used with very high compression ratios. Methanol and ethanol have a very high latent heat of vaporisation, i.e., it takes a lot of heat to convert them from liquid form into vapour. Petrol has a latent heat of evaporation of 135 Btu/lb., methanol 472 Btu/lb. and ethanol 410 Btu/lb. This heat, required for proper atomisation, is removed from the piston crown, combustion chamber and the cylinder, resulting in an internally cooler engine. An engine burning methanol will usually show a 6-8% power increase over one running on Avgas 100/130 (i.e., Racing Fuel 100), without any change in compression ratio. With the compression ratio increased to its maximum, power can rise as much as 15-17%. Where does the power increase come from? The two cycle engine is a type of heat engine, i.e., one that burns fuel to cause the expansion of gas, and the subsequent movement of the piston. The more heat produced by the combustion fire, the more pressure there will be exerted on the piston, which gives us a power increase. Using petrol, the fuel/air ratio for best power (i.e., the strongest force on the piston) is 1:12.5. With methanol, for example, we can increase the fuel/air ratio to 1:4.5, although I usually prefer a ratio of 1:5.5; less than 1:7 is too lean. One pound of petrol has the energy potential of about 19,000 Btu (one British Thermal Unit is the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of one pound of water one degree Fahrenheit.). In comparison, methanol delivers around 9,800 Btu/lb., which means that it produces less than 52% of the heat energy of lib of petrol. However, because we are mixing more methanol with each pound of air (1:5.5) than petrol (1:12.5), we are actually producing more heat energy by burning methanol. To work out how much more heat energy is produced, we have to divide 12.5 by 5.5, which equals 2.27. Next we multiply 9800 by 2.27, which gives us 22,246. This indicates that methanol, in the correct fuel/air proportions, will produce 17% more heat energy than petrol at the correct fuel/air ratio.
    By comparison, the maximum increase we can obtain using ethanol is about 10%, although it does have anti-knock and cooling properties very nearly the same as methanol. In coming years, I expect we will see a marked increase in the useage of ethanol in both racing and road engines. As the world's oil supply dries up, more racing organisations and governments will encourage the production and use of ethanol derived from grain and sugar producing plants. Strong public opinion against all forms of motor sport using valuable reserves of crude based fuels will, I expect, soon force many sanctioning bodies to ban the use of petrol in motor racing, with the obvious alternatives being ethanol or ethanol/toluol, ethanol/acetone blends. From the above calculation, you can see that an engine running on straight methanol will burn more than twice as much fuel (1.8 times as much for ethanol) as one burning petrol. Therefore you must be careful to ensure that the fuel tap, fuel lines and needle valve will flow the required amount of fuel. This can present some problems, as many carburettors will not flow the required
    amount of fuel through the standard needle and seat. Often a larger replacement is not available, so you will have to enlarge the discharge holes to increase flow by the amount necessary. At times you will find it impossible to get main jets large enough, so again you will have to resort to some drilling. Most Mikuni carburettor jets (the hex head type) are classified with regard to their fuel flow rate, the number stamped on the jet standing for the ccs of fuel the jet is capable of flowing in a certain time. If you are changing from petrol to methanol, then you should start testing with jets at least 2.3 times as large, eg: change 210 jet to a 480. The round head Mikuni jets are rated according to their nominal bore diameter in millimetres, eg: a round head 250 jet has a nominal aperture of 2.5mm. Again, when changing from petrol to methanol you will have to begin with jets with an aperture area 2.3 times as large. (Aperture area = nr2). Keep in mind also when you convert to an alcohol fuel, either neat or blended, that the fuel/oil ratio may have need of adjustment. Straight methanol would require only 80% as much oil, or a 25:1 ratio in many applications, although some engines will require a 16:1 mix. It is always best to start testing at 20:1 and work from there. There are other problems involved in the change to alcohol, some of which will affect you and some your engine. Since your life is the most important, we will deal with you first. Methanol is extremely poisonous and, as it is an accumulative poison, it can build up over a period of time and oxidise to form formaldehyde, eventually causing blindness or even insanity. It is absorbed through the skin and lungs, either by direct contact or from the vapours. Inhalation of the exhaust gas can also be dangerous as vaporised methanol is usually present, especially when rich mixtures are being used. Alcohols are a very effective paint stripper, and they may attack some fibreglass resins. They have a scouring effect on fuel tanks and lines so these should be soaked in alcohol and then drained so that the residue does not find its way into the carburettor when you switch from petrol to alcohol. Methanol and ethanol will absorb huge amounts of water out of the air, so they must always be kept in an air-tight container. The fuel will also have to be completely drained from the tank and the carburettor to prevent the formation of water-induced corrosion and oxidization. This can be particularly damaging to a carburettor and usually results in blocked metering passages. After burning alcohol in a two-stroke engine it is most important to run a petrol/oil mix rich in oil through the engine each time you put your machine away after a day's running. If this is not done, you v,'ill soon find corrosion and etching of the cylinder wall, crank and piston pin, needle and ball bearings that will lead to premature failure. To prevent this occurrence, I would suggest that you run a half pint of 16:1 petrol/oil mixture through the engine. In colder climates, starting difficulties may be encountered when pure alcohol is being burned. Some use other more volatile fuels blended in, to help overcome this problem. Usually 5% acetone or a maximum of 3% ether is used. I do not recommend starting aerosols containing ether, due to the possibility of engine damage being caused by detonation. Personally I feel the best method is to remove the spark plug and pour about a half teaspoon of either petrol or neat acetone into the cylinder before you attempt to start the engine. Alcohol burners demand a good ignition system. Not only does the ignition have to cope with much higher compression pressures, it may also be called on to fire plugs
    Two Stroke Performance Tuning
    wetted by the very rich mixture being inducted. Alcohol fuels burn much more slowly than petrol, so it will be necessary to experiment with more ignition advance. It is not possible to predict just how much additional advance will be required as there are so many variables involved, but you should begin testing with about an extra 3-5° advance. Before you advance the spark lead, do make sure that the carburation is fully sorted out. If the engine runs just slightly lean, with added spark lead you could very easily hole a piston. As well as a much larger main jet, it is probable that a different needle profile and a larger needle jet will be required. To correct off idle leanness, a bigger pilot jet and a small 1.0 to 1.5mm slide cutaway may be needed.
    PG 120 on
    Nitromethane, as such, isn't really a good fuel but it can give two-stroke engines a power boost if used sensibly. Nitro's only virtue is that it contains approximately 53% by weight oxygen, so in effect it is a chemical super-charger. In drag car engines it is blended 80-90% nitro to 10-20% methanol, but there is no way a two-stroke engine can hold together with more than a 20% nitro-80% methanol blend. Even then, I would only use nitro in small and rugged single cylinder dirt track engines. To deter detonation, or other engine damage, it is always necessary to lower the compression ratio. If your engine runs reliably at a 17:1 compression ratio on methanol, then you should be able to use a 14:1 ratio with a 20% nitro-80% methanol fuel mix. As with methanol, nitromethane demands a rich fuel/air mixture. Using a 20% nitro blend, the mixture would be approximately one part fuel to three or four parts air, i.e., 1:3-4. This means that you will have to increase the main jet size by about 22-25% above that required for pure methanol with a 20% nitro-80% methanol mixture. A 12-15% jet increase will be close for a 10% nitro blend. The safest way to avoid error when mixing nitro with other fuels is to mix according to volume, eg: for a 20% nitro blend you will use one gallon of nitro to four gallons of methanol. Care is in order when handling nitromethane, as it may become explosive. Normally nitro is quite safe, but it may be made shock sensitive by any of the following practices:a) the addition of hydrazine in fuel blending b) the use of caustic soda or any other alkaline for cleaning the mixing drum c) the use of 'unpickled' anodised aluminium fuel tanks. After anodising, the tank must be allowed to stand for a few days filled with a solution 10% vinegar—90% water.
    Quote Originally Posted by Katman View Post
    I reminder distinctly .




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  7. #27562
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    2t efi

    Quote Originally Posted by FastFred View Post
    There you are TZ, maybe a successful 2T EFI system, looks like an injector port in that throttle body.
    This throttle body we got from Ecotron. We often have problem with components quality and have to do inhouse.
    Now we 5-axis mill bodies and make our proprietary 2T EFI system, very lightweight and poverfull
    We place some of sensors in one ECU box and got by wires cylinder head themperature and throttle angle.
    May be one day we will make 2T ECU as a "box product"

  8. #27563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    That is a nice-looking engine, Jbiplane.
    It takes me back about 20 years when I designed a similar ultralight-powerplant.
    Attachment 333046
    Both look like Velocette Viceroy engines. Question for Jbiplane: You have no cooling on the outside of the transfer port passages. Is this because you aren't operating at a high BMEP level or is it because you have so much cooling available with the air speed? Excellent job though. Crankcase machining looks mint.
    "Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm.”

  9. #27564
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    That is a nice-looking engine, Jbiplane.
    It takes me back about 20 years when I designed a similar ultralight-powerplant. You may recognize some of the weight-saving ideas .
    Attachment 333046
    Nice picture Frits. Your project (1000cc boxer) was either implemented in metals? Do you have more pictures?
    We produce at the moment range of engines from 90cc to 350cc. I want to make my own 172 cc completelly milled of blanks cylinders compatible with Malossi or whatelse.
    At moment my milled 172cc 66x50mm cylinder weight only 1060 grammes. According our experience milled of 6082 cylinders much more strong than any casting and
    much better coated by Nikasil. We experienced now with electroless nikel+ceramic coating and seems when apply thin film of the nikel at the top of galvanic piston rings
    survive much longer.

    We want try out all very similar to http://www.kanigen.co.jp/english/products.php
    If anyone want I could be reached by jbiplane@gmail.com to dont post information which weakly correlate with general moto forum.

    My interests are
    new scavenging ideas with experimental and CFD validation
    topology and parametric structural FEA optimization
    all technologies of low volume cost effective cylinder, pistons and crankshaft production
    compact lightweight exhaust systems
    completelly new engine materials and coatings including ceramics.

  10. #27565
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    All this talk of alcohol fuel, when I started to experiment with E85 through a carburetor I had no end of trouble. Air cooled engine, the fueling requirement between a cold engine and a hot engine were outside any adjustment I could make within the carburetor. It seems that when the engine is working and the fuel vaperises well is different from the fuel requirement when say same throttle position but a cooler engine. The only successful fix was EFI and a separate graph, master fuel over temperature. Seems to be at 70 degrees is the changeover point, where ethanol vaperises. Anyway that is my experience.
    It's interesting to note that with my TPI system on ethanol I can nearly bring the twostroke fuel burn back to that of petrol with a carburetor. All my engines from now will run E85 through TPI (mark two), it is the future.

  11. #27566
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    Quote Originally Posted by jbiplane View Post
    Nice picture Frits. Your project (1000cc boxer) was either implemented in metals? Do you have more pictures?
    Thanks. When the drawings were about done, the customer went bankrupt, so no implementation in metal. As it's a long time ago, I could only find one more picture.
    You will notice that the crankshaft main bearings are farther apart than usual, as a consequence of combining head, cylinder and crankcase-half in one single casting. The main bearing seats needed to be far enough apart for the piston to pass through. But in a 2-stroke boxer the radial loads on the main bearings are lower than in any other engine type anyway. And an advantage of this approach was that I needed just one casting, 2 off, for the whole engine. You can't build 'm any lighter than that.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  12. #27567
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    Cfd

    Quote Originally Posted by ken seeber View Post
    Both look like Velocette Viceroy engines. Question for Jbiplane: You have no cooling on the outside of the transfer port passages. Is this because you aren't operating at a high BMEP level or is it because you have so much cooling available with the air speed? Excellent job though. Crankcase machining looks mint.
    We have propeller located very close to the cylinders and no overheating problems. As we encountered thin milled 1,8mm cooling fins in this conditions dissipate much more energy than casted 4mm.
    External layer of casting makes real thermal barier.

  13. #27568
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flettner View Post
    All this talk of alcohol fuel, when I started to experiment with E85 through a carburetor I had no end of trouble. Air cooled engine, the fueling requirement between a cold engine and a hot engine were outside any adjustment I could make within the carburetor. It seems that when the engine is working and the fuel vaperises well is different from the fuel requirement when say same throttle position but a cooler engine. The only successful fix was EFI and a separate graph, master fuel over temperature. Seems to be at 70 degrees is the changeover point, where ethanol vaperises. Anyway that is my experience.
    It's interesting to note that with my TPI system on ethanol I can nearly bring the twostroke fuel burn back to that of petrol with a carburetor. All my engines from now will run E85 through TPI (mark two), it is the future.
    78.4 celsius is a good number to remember when burning ethanol one has run through the distiller

    I ran an Opel Engine for a couple of years ago on E85.(turbo 700hp yada yada)
    And i became really confused when the table to compensate for fuel actually needed to turn around at these 78degree´s.
    First, enrichment when cold that slowly ramped away and 'peaked' at 78degree, then it needed to get enriched again to keep the same lambdavalue in exhausts.

  14. #27569
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frits Overmars View Post
    Thanks. When the drawings were about done, the customer went bankrupt, so no implementation in metal. Since it's a long time ago, I could only find one more picture.
    You will notice that the crankshaft main bearings are farther apart than usual, as a consequence of combining head, cylinder and crankcase-half in one single casting. The main bearing seats needed to be far enough apart for the piston to fit through. But on a two-stroke boxer the radial loads on the main bearings are lower than in any other engine type anyway. And an advantage of the combined casting was that the whole engine needed just one cast part, twice. And you can't build them any lighter.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    The torque variations in two stroke boxer is just as big and nasty as in a single 1000 ccm engine.
    A V2 will be smother than smooth and crank not very much heavier,if at all.
    In Your very informative writing on big bang fallacy there are some curves showing it but I cannot find them.

    https://imgur.com/9RprD0t

  15. #27570
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    Quote Originally Posted by Niels Abildgaard View Post
    The torque variations in two stroke boxer is just as big and nasty as in a single 1000 ccm engine.
    A V2 will be smother than smooth and crank not very much heavier,if at all.
    You're right about the torque variations Niels, but I was talking about the radial bearing loads, which are almost non-existent in a boxer.
    The majority of light aircraft are using boxer engines for a reason. A propeller makes quite a good flywheel (low mass, high inertia), flattening the torque fluctuations.
    Your V2-crankshaft (below) may not be heavier than a boxer-crank, but in principle it's a four-stroke crank. Unless you use an external blower, adding volume, weight and complication, a two-stroke V-twin needs two separate crankcase volumes, and your crankshaft does not provide for that.
    Click image for larger version. 

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