should we be allowed semi-autos?

[Voltaire]

Fair question - and to answer, I'm going to go full armchair general...

First point is that Vietnam represented a new style of Warfare that the US simply wasn't prepared for - a Guerrilla style fight and one in a Jungle no less - which the US didn't have experience in.

Second point is that the Vietnamese didn't so much as win, as it was that America withdrew - the War wasn't popular politically, something which a government that is concerned with popular opinion seeks to avoid.

Thirdly - we've seen the modern US armed forces fight insurgency/guerilla style wars since then - and whilst I concede absolutely that a relatively lowtech armed force can inflict damage (IED strikes etc.) - they can't stop the tanks from rolling in, they can't stop the co-ordinated airstrikes, they can't stop the precision guided munitions.

Fourthly those conflicts weren't fought on home soil, they were fought on the opposite sides of the world.

The point I'm making is that if tomorrow, Trump went full dictator, there is not a damn thing the average citizen could do to stop it, except hope and pray that the US armed forces staged a Coup d'état.

Best you watch the Ken Burns 10 part series on TV 1 on Demand.

If you send in 500 000 troops, drop more bombs than in WW2 and spend 70 Billion over 20 years and "withdraw" its called losing.

They only withdrew as it was affecting both the Democrats and Republicans winning elections.

[TheDemonLord]

it reads:

Given the time this was written the US had no standing army and the militia had fought off the British - so this is not about the generalized right to bear arms .. this is about having a militia to defend the USA ...

Arguably - but to me self-evident - now that the US has a standing army it does not need a militia - or the generalized right to bear arms. OR All gun owners can be called into a militia at any time and sent to face the enemy .. I doubt many of them would be happy with either choice - especially the latter ..

To be clear - me personally - I agree with your interpretation as to what constitutes a well-regulated Militia, however there's been several big Court decisions (I think at the Supreme Court level) where they have ratified that the definition extends to the individual, and since it's the US constitution and US law - their interpretation wins.

[TheDemonLord]

Best you watch the Ken Burns 10 part series on TV 1 on Demand.

If you send in 500 000 troops, drop more bombs than in WW2 and spend 70 Billion over 20 years and "withdraw" its called losing.

Drop more bombs, sure - but compare the troop numbers - nearly more people died (from the US) in WW2 than were deployed in Vietnam (405,000 vs 500,000)

My point was that the NVA didn't drive the US out of Vietnam and achieve a military victory.

They only withdrew as it was affecting both the Democrats and Republicans winning elections.

That's my point.

The US withdrew, the NVA didn't win.

[Voltaire]

Drop more bombs, sure - but compare the troop numbers - nearly more people died (from the US) in WW2 than were deployed in Vietnam (405,000 vs 500,000)

My point was that the NVA didn't drive the US out of Vietnam and achieve a military victory.



That's my point.

The US withdrew, the NVA didn't win.

They were never going to win, watch the Documentary.

[TheDemonLord]

They were never going to win, watch the Documentary.

I'll watch the Documentary - but from what I've read of the Vietnam war (again - full Arm Chair General mode here) - is that the US could have won, but no one wanted to escalate it to that point.

[Akzle]

I'll watch the Documentary - but from what I've read of the Vietnam war (again - full Arm Chair General mode here) - is that the US could have won, but no one wanted to escalate it to that point.

won what ?

[Kickaha]

The US withdrew, the NVA didn't win.

Same end result, if I was having a fight with someone and they decided they'd fuck off I'd be calling it a win

[GazzaH]

So would they, and so would some of us.

[Akzle]

I legally own a 12-gauge semi-automatic ... what's the problem?

it could be used in the comission of a crime.
consider yourself lucky you're not limited to 3 shot plugs. yet.

[T.W.R]

I'd just like to see a bit more responsible ownership and use. Found another bullet hole in the house yesterday, now 5 there.
None seem to be bigger than .22 so I'm picking it's bunny shooters in the area around the village.
How hard is it to site yourself to shoot away from the built up area ?
Plenty of kids in the village now - there's always a risk of hitting one.

Wait till you get a car load of halfwits ripping through the village in the early hours letting off shots at the intersection signs & in the process emptying a full magazine. Or having one of the local degenerates climbing halfway up a tree one night to pump a heap of .177s into a possum while the knuckle dragging parents get the family car out on the street so the headlights illuminate everything each time it took plod over 20mins to make an appearance

Speaking of "fun at the range" - One of my friends was on holiday in Vietnam earlier this year. She posted a youtube clip of herself firing an entire mag of AK47 and laughing maniacally. That range also had an M60 you could have a burl on.

yes, I'm going next year, why do you ask?

There's an outfit in Thailand where you can blow the buggery out of a cattle beasts with RPGs



True hunting apart from waterfowl and rabbiting there isn't any need for SLR; A top notch deer hunter and thar & chamois hunters are frugal with ammo and the environment dictates that and the worst thing is some trigger happy cowboy blasting the shit out of everything, it has repercussions for a long time.

Though having used a Gevarm .22 with a banana clip and the special wee pin knocked out was entertaining shooting from the back of a truck on a hare drive

[Swoop]

What I can't work out is why you would need a rapid fire gun here in little old NZ.

You haven't discovered a mob of goats then.
Or competitive shooting events.
Perhaps even historical reasons?
Simple skill? A self loader isn't as inherently accurate as a bolt action, meaning more skill required - especially as distances increase.

There's an outfit in Thailand where you can blow the buggery out of a cattle beasts with RPGs

I think you mean Vietnam...

[T.W.R]

You haven't discovered a mob of goats then.

Must be a slower breed of goat up north, find a mob down here and ping one off and the rest scarper pretty bloody fast and no matter whether you're a crack shot with a semi auto or bolt action and at best maybe down one or two others before they're vanished out of sight

I think you mean Vietnam...

Was just going off memory from a few years back of an old work colleague who spent a couple of months over there and came back bragging about what he'd got up to and had pics of one of his mates lined up ready to take a shot; not my cup of tea personally but some individuals have unique perversions to get their jollies from

[Berries]

Perhaps even historical reasons?

We aren't allowed to shoot the natives down here any more.

[awayatc]

We aren't allowed to shoot the natives down here any more.

Not even for sport?

[Swoop]

Must be a slower breed of goat up north, find a mob down here and ping one off and the rest scarper pretty bloody fast...

The mobs are slower since they are all stuck in D'auckland's traffic.

Yes, the RPG "tourism" is a bit weird. To put it mildly.