Road toll - Police stupid obsession blaming speed

[caspernz]

I know.

I spent a huge amount of time typing my stuff with one hand on account of being half crippled by some dickhead pulling in front of my Aprilia and no bastard understood a word of what I said.

Sigh.

Here goes again.

Velocity in excess of the speed limit doesn't necessarily cause accidents, up to a certain level.

What it does do is decide how much it's gonna fuck you up if you hit something.

It's impossible to argue with that is it? Don't answer that; I'm sure some fool will try.

Some of us get it Simon, the hard part is conveying that it can happen to any of us.

The catchphrase is appropriate to the conditions, that's the bit lost on many. Having an intelligent conversation on the subject requires admitting ones' own failings, and making changes to how we ride/drive. I'll freely admit that when I went down the path of advanced rider training I was humbled many times, for I was nowhere near as aware as I am today. Still a work in progress though...

The basics we get wrong are common, speed is but one of those factors. Education and enforcement.

Best wishes with your recovery.

[Scuba_Steve]

Speed causes some crashes. Not many, but some. It makes gap selection harder for observers, makes poor corcornering lines far worse, makes bad calls turn out worse.

Of those crashes not csused by speed, certainly the greater the speed, the worse the outcome.

The speed obsession grew in the
early 80s when someone realised thst crashes are virtually inevitable, as humans make human errors. So by slowing everyone down, the inevitable crashes will happen at lower speeds, with less kinetic energy imparted.

Of course, if we were all awesome drivers then speed wouldn't be a problem. But collectively we aren't entirely O for orsum.

Course alot of studies suggest that this has had the negative effect of increasing those crashes & end of the day no crash is safer than a slow crash
The other problem is there is so many variables in crashes that looking at a car hit a brick wall & saying "doing that at a slower speed will be safer" is redundant as speed has little bearing when what you're crashing into is a branch sticking out from a tree, a y-post unsecured flying out from the vehicle that hit you, finding yourself under a truck, sliding into cheese cutters, falling off a cliff etc etc
I'd actually assume hitting a large flat surface is probably in the vast minority of crashes allowing for many other things to kill you other than impact force

[MD]

Speed causes some crashes. Not many, but some. It makes gap selection harder for observers, makes poor corcornering lines far worse, makes bad calls turn out worse.

Of those crashes not csused by speed, certainly the greater the speed, the worse the outcome.

The speed obsession grew in the
early 80s when someone realised thst crashes are virtually inevitable, as humans make human errors. So by slowing everyone down, the inevitable crashes will happen at lower speeds, with less kinetic energy imparted.

Of course, if we were all awesome drivers then speed wouldn't be a problem. But collectively we aren't entirely O for orsum.

Quite right. By the 80s cheap, lighter and faster Jap imports were flooding the country. Young inexperienced folks suddenly found themselves going much faster 3 months after getting a licence. I'm sure it happen a bit but I don't recall in the 60s & 70s carloads of youths totally destroying themselves in a vehicle wrapped around a tree wrecked beyond recognition with 3 or 4 mates in the car.

Speed certainly makes the outcome worse and reduces the chances of being able to take evasive action when something goes unexpected wrong. We must all weigh up the time and place and take our chances. For all my speeding sins, never endangering others is the first consideration on my mind.

[rastuscat]

Quite right. By the 80s cheap, lighter and faster Jap imports were flooding the country. Young inexperienced folks suddenly found themselves going much faster 3 months after getting a licence. I'm sure it happen a bit but I don't recall in the 60s & 70s carloads of youths totally destroying themselves in a vehicle wrapped around a tree wrecked beyond recognition with 3 or 4 mates in the car.

Speed certainly makes the outcome worse and reduces the chances of being able to take evasive action when something goes unexpected wrong. We must all weigh up the time and place and take our chances. For all my speeding sins, never endangering others is the first consideration on my mind.

Our worst ever road toll was in 1973. When the population was half what is was now, and most families only had one car.

We managed to kill 843 people that year. It wouldn't be so bad if we could choose who they were, trouble is, they are mostly just Mr and Mrs Average, and all the little Averages.

No ABS, no crumple zones, cross ply tyres, no side impact beams, no air bags. Roads were dreadful back then, cats eyes didn't exist, not did retro reflective marker posts, or the median barrier down the Auckland Harbour Bridge.

My, how things have changed. Lower breath test limits, vehicle impoundment, a focus on seatbelts. In 1973 seatbelts weren't even in the back seat, let alone compulsory.

[Woodman]

The Swedish approach. Basically accidents will keep happening so lessen their severity.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/986...ll-experts-say

[AllanB]

The Swedish approach. Basically accidents will keep happening so lessen their severity.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/986...ll-experts-say

Has some merit.

Labour like giving away money - maybe the government will give everyone a $20,000 trade-in for your pre year 2000 car?

[Ocean1]

The Swedish approach. Basically accidents will keep happening so lessen their severity.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/986...ll-experts-say

And German. http://www.dw.com/en/european-towns-...er/a-2143663-1

And Dutch. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-448747.html

Fancy that, making people responsible for their own decisions makes them... responsible. Whoda thought?

Bonus point: removing all of the signs makes fewer motorcycle accidents... fatal.

There's this thing about institutional authority that always smells a bit whiff,though: It's just as authoritative when it's wrong.

[jellywrestler]

cats eyes didn't exist, .

they were invented in world war two as people had to drive with as little light as possible, but we didn't see them here for a long time after

[jellywrestler]

Lower breath test limits, .

did they even have breath tests those days, most times if you were pulled over the law would take you home

[Akzle]

Has some merit.

Labour like giving away money - maybe the government will give everyone a $20,000 trade-in for your pre year 2000 car?

buy my magna bro.


but also, fuck that gayshit.

[Berries]

The Swedish approach. Basically accidents will keep happening so lessen their severity.

https://www.stuff.co.nz/motoring/986...ll-experts-say

The New Zealand approach even gets a mention in the link you posted.

http://www.saferjourneys.govt.nz/

[george formby]

I'm waiting for a speeding ticket to turn up in the post.... Passing a double trailer quarry truck on an overtaking lane with 11 other vehicles behind me, very close behind me. I thought getting past efficiently to avoid playing snooker when the lanes merged was the safest bet. We will see if the Federale hiding behind the crest feels the same way.



Caveat, I overtook on the assumption that the truck would slow significantly.... That thing must have had 1000hp, I had to put the boot in or crawl past.

Such is life.

[rastuscat]

did they even have breath tests those days, most times if you were pulled over the law would take you home

When I started in 1988 the level was 500. Think it came down around 1991 ish.

[Swoop]

they were invented in world war two as people had to drive with as little light as possible, but we didn't see them here for a long time after

Sorry, wrong.
Pre-war invention. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Shaw

[awayatc]

And German. http://www.dw.com/en/european-towns-...er/a-2143663-1

And Dutch. http://www.spiegel.de/international/...-a-448747.html

Fancy that, making people responsible for their own decisions makes them... responsible. Whoda thought?

Bonus point: removing all of the signs makes fewer motorcycle accidents... fatal.

There's this thing about institutional authority that always smells a bit whiff,though: It's just as authoritative when it's wrong.

But how can you issuse infringement notices when there are no signs/ rules to disobey. ...?