ESE's works engine tuner

[wobbly]

Long time ago ,if I remember correctly , I said free blowys for life to anyone making over 30Hp at 10500 in a bucket - cant remember if that was 100cc ( with 24mm carb ) or 125 aircooled.
No ones even come close, so I am safe, for now.

[husaberg]

We may have a small terminology misunderstanding since I was using "heat exchanger" to refer to a "radiator" (per Carroll Smith's "Prepare to Win" definition that they are water/air heat exchangers) but I hadn't considered using a liquid/liquid heat exchanger since I've never had occasion to use one in the past. I was envisioning a "radiator" for each circuit.

A water to air rad for each circuit was originally what I was thinking.
But I think it could be done with one and a Water to water heat exchanger. Which I thought you were saying I was looking at that last night.
Water to water heat exchangers can normally if given enough flow and surface area drop the heated water temp to within 3 -4 degrees of the cooler water temp.

So would I be correct that you do think there would be some advantage to having two (a high temp and a low temp) separate cooling circuits so the low temp circuit can more easily stay "low" by not having to deal with the high temp coolant?

cheers,
Michael

Yes,The question is, if it would be lighter to use a second radiator or if the gains in a cooler crankcase would be worth the effort. I think it would have to be suck and see ,IE do a trial.
Or in my case convince Rob to try it out.

Long time ago ,if I remember correctly , I said free blowys for life to anyone making over 30Hp at 10500 in a bucket - cant remember if that was 100cc ( with 24mm carb ) or 125 aircooled.
No ones even come close, so I am safe, for now.

I recall it as air cooled 125cc 24mm carb and 10500rpm.

[Haufen]

Long time ago ,if I remember correctly , I said free blowys for life to anyone making over 30Hp at 10500 in a bucket - cant remember if that was 100cc ( with 24mm carb ) or 125 aircooled.
No ones even come close, so I am safe, for now.

IIrc you did not mention if you were going to provide the service by yourself or have a dedicated serviceperson paid to do it when that question was asked at the time.

Does it only apply for 125cc, or would getting the same specific HP with a larger engine be okay, too?

[TZ350]

TZ350, what Wobbly said about RV and pipe off throttle.

You can time the injection squirt to happen when the pipe is sucking hard. That way most of the fuel is drawn up the transfers. When I get that right there is very little dribble on the dyno deck. As compared to the large puddle left by a carb.

Maybe a RV is next to impossible to EFI

In my dark moments I think so too.

But with EFI I find it very easy to get it to run wide open throttle and make power. Its the near closed throttle positions that are difficult.

And I am certainly finding it very difficult to get it to work properly below 20% throttle in the region where the motor should be on the pipe.

The current thinking is that there is a very large difference in air flow through the motor when the pipe is assisting flow and when its not. The trick is finding a way to see that.

I have found that measuring the pipe or crankcase pressure with a MAP sensor you only get to see the average pressure at that point. And the average pressure drops when the motor is on the pipe because the suck is stronger than the reflected pressure pulse. The magnitude of the average is pretty much the same throughout the power range.

My current thinking is to try and see the difference between high and low pressure in the crankcase. I expect this difference to be greater the harder the pipe sucks.

[wobbly]

My response was simply to demonstrate the stupidity of someone who suggested " just reduce the rpm to 10500 and make the same power ".
It was, and still is ,complete idiocy, to suggest that the bmep required to make over 30hp at 10500 in a 125 bucket engine is even remotely possible with the SOTA we have now.
Luc has convinced himself, but not us,that the task has already been done with new technology.
But I retain the right to pass off the deed to a paid substitute if the need arises.

[F5 Dave]

You can time the injection squirt to happen when the pipe is sucking hard. That way most of the fuel is drawn up the transfers. When I get that right there is very little dribble on the dyno deck. As compared to the large puddle left by a carb.




With EFI I find it very easy to get it to run wide open throttle and make power. Its the near closed throttle positions that are difficult.

And I am certainly finding it very difficult to get it to work properly below 20% throttle in the region where the motor should be on the pipe.

The current thinking is that there is a very large difference in air flow through the motor when the pipe is assisting flow and when its not. The trick is finding a way to see that. Current thinking is to try and see the difference between high and low pressure in the crankcase. I expect the difference to be greater the harder the pipe sucks.

OK so to be a pervert. . . So how about a 24mm carb with a 80 size mainjet and injection to do the rest. You know? Just to get things going with most benefits.

[TZ350]

OK so to be a pervert. . . So how about a 24mm carb with a 80 size mainjet and injection to do the rest. You know? Just to get things going with most benefits.

Interestingly TwoTempe suggested much the same thing to me today. I am going to finish exploring the difference idea first but the carb idea looks like it has possibilities if I get really stuck and have to chose between that and poking my eyes out.

[Flettner]

no, you don't need a carb, pervert.
KTM are doing it, crank case pressure sampling. IE only at a given point in crank rotation, same point every time, build up a 'pressure average change map', I think you will find that's what KTM are doing, they appear to fuel extremely well lower in the throttle range. In fact right through their throttle range.
research what they do!

[philou]

Mota simulator comes with a new tool that automatically adjusts the exhaust pipe.

=> http://www.iwt.com.au/mota.htm

"The optimiser searches automatically for the expansion chamber dimensions that give the maximum power or torque for your engine over a speed range that you input. It runs the tried and tested MOTA simulator many times, altering the expansion chamber dimensions intelligently between simulations, to produce an optimal expansion chamber design. This expansion chamber is not the product of simple correlations as for other products that abound on the web, but an "automatic" design created by MOTA which is a full wave action 2-stroke engine simulator."

a similar tool could be interresting with engmodt

[shnaggs]

no, you don't need a carb, pervert.
KTM are doing it, crank case pressure sampling. IE only at a given point in crank rotation, same point every time, build up a 'pressure average change map', I think you will find that's what KTM are doing, they appear to fuel extremely well lower in the throttle range. In fact right through their throttle range.
research what they do!

Have you ridden a new TPI KTM? Not referring to your TPI YZ, but my brother road a new TPI KTM and says that its terrible down low, like the thing has been neutered, and lacks any kinda feel. IDK cause I havent ridden it yet.

[Flettner]

Have you ridden a new TPI KTM? Not referring to your TPI YZ, but my brother road a new TPI KTM and says that its terrible down low, like the thing has been neutered, and lacks any kinda feel. IDK cause I havent ridden it yet.

You have missed my point, they run clean throughout their range. KTM set the bikes as standard to meet emission constraints, lower to mid is where the fuel is traditionally lost mostly so yes probably a little neutered in feel they do.
But there are other maps that can be loaded that change this, ask Chris Birtch he has a reloaded 300 and loves it. One comment he specifically makes is how clean in runs throughout it's rev range.
with the link you can run a 3D map using revs, TPS and manifold pressure ( conditions). It needs to be feed a relatively smooth signal, thats were timed sampling is needed.
We can change or YZ to have 'sharp' power delivery but the fuel consumption suffers and it gets harder to ride, just like a normal YZ, why would you?

[wobbly]

So Rob, we have a start point for the project of a 32mm duct,and a 36mm header along with around a 22mm stinger nozzle.
The current setup with the RS125 pipe peaks at around 12,000, so the question is, do you want to modify a cylinder to get the correct pipe geometry
and although way more power is available at higher revs, do you want to go there.

[TALLIS]

Long time ago ,if I remember correctly , I said free blowys for life to anyone making over 30Hp at 10500 in a bucket - cant remember if that was 100cc ( with 24mm carb ) or 125 aircooled.
No ones even come close, so I am safe, for now.

It was 125cc aircooled with 24mm carb, and yes it has been achieved in a bucket. For nearly 2 years now running reliably. Seems weird for you to bring this up.... as this is not the type of bet I'd be willing to offer!

[wobbly]

Show me the corrected dyno sheet.

[TALLIS]

Show me the corrected dyno sheet.

It's not my bike and I don't walk around with a dyno sheets in my back pocket as it's not that important to me. The bike will be in Auckland for the two hour later this year, I'll get him to bring it around on the way up if you like. Maybe there's more horses hiding in there somewhere.