Engagement With Motorcyclists

[Blackbird]

I like your thinking Blackbird... let's say if you've completed an advanced riding qualification [what that means is a totally other kettle of fish...] you can have 50% off, yes! 50% off your licence fee... Considering that the licence fee for a big bike, read over 600cc, is $24.50 then half of that is $12.25... worth it? Probably not...

Am I being cynical? Yes, I am. Considering that the ACC levy for the same bike is nearly 16 times the licence fee it would be nice to have something off that for improving your riding - difficulty in defining "improving your riding". But, the issue I see with that is that it could easily be seen as a form of rebate similar to the "no claims bonus" you get with insurance and then does that start to make the ACC scheme look more like an insurance and with that the other "conditions" that insurances carry - such as "it looks like an insurance so why not sell it off to an insurance company to run"...

The only thing that a question like this - how to engage motorcyclists? - does, is encourage discussion, debate and argument. Possibly it encourages personal thinking for many. Perhaps some self reflection and acceptance of self responsibility for our actions amongst some as well.

I don't have an answer Mark because as has already been said, we're not a united group so there's not one answer. One of the few common interests might be in the pocket. Why is Rastuscat having this conversation? Because of the accident/injury rate. Lots of contributing factors but there's a lot we can do to help ourselves by raising our skills. Surely the state can offer effective incentives in addition to subsidised Ride Forever courses?

[Viking01]

Getting back on track for a moment.

I think there would need to be a broad range of strategies, given the wide demographic within motorcycling.

Rastus,
I read your original post and saw it pertained to "our safety on the road".

Safety as a topic area is pretty wide. [ And one that might lend itself to
doing a little mind mapping ].

Anyway I'm still none the wiser as to the particular problem area and the
specific problem YOU are hoping to address (i.e. some problem statement).

And I can't see any statement of specific goals or objectives (i.e. against
which you might then define and attach some measures and measurements
- and gauge future progress). Not a criticism - just an observation.

The reason I ask you is that I see our (motorcyclist) safety on the road
being impacted by what we as motorcyclists do, as well as what other
road users do. [ Please just ignore physical environment for the moment ]

Are you interested in (for example):

1. Reduced Motorcycle Rider Death or Injury [ Counts or Costs ]
Are you seeking to help reduce the number of "fatals" (deaths) and/or the
number of "non-fatals" (injury crashes) ?

- or -

2. Reduced Motorcycle Crash Culpability [ Rider Responsible ]
Are you seeking to help reduce the number of "single vehicle" crash instances,
or "multi - vehicle" crash instances (involving a motorcycle) ?

[ I'm making the assumption that a "single vehicle" crash event is largely due to
rider own error, whereas a "multi-vehicle" crash event may have culpability split
between the two parties ]

- or -

3. Increased Motorcyclist Rider Authorisation or Competency [ Basic Training ]
Are you seeking to increase the number of motorcyclists (learner; provisional)
that have proceeded to full licence), or fully licensed riders that have then
undergone some approved training courses ?

- or -

4. Increased Motorcyclist Rider Hazard Avoidance [ Advanced Training ]
Are you seeking to help increase the number of motorcyclists that might have
been through a special course in hazard avoidance (e.g. adventure riders ;
quad bike riders ) ?


Because to start talking about strategies (the HOW TO) - without having defined
the above (the WHAT and the WHO) - would seem to me a little "cart before the
horse".

Plus you need to decide what data you need. As well as identify a suitable source
of data and acquire it e.g.
Fatals: Police (or Hospital) --> ESR --> NZTA --> MOT
Non-Fatals: ACC or MOT

Some good summary data should also help you with justification (the WHY).


To take just one of the above examples : (2) - Reduced Motorcycle Rider Crash
Culpability

Choice of "single vehicle" crash events might mean focusing solely on riders
and typical single person crash scenarios (e.g. run off road --> excess speed
or poor cornering technique ; cross centre line --> poor position ; rear end
collisions --> rider following too close ; under the influence --> drugs or
alcohol)

whereas

choice of "multi-vehicle" crash events would mean targeting both riders AND
other road users --> Immediately your target audience has exploded in size.

What you package up and communicate to riders alone, will be quite different
to what you might package up for other road users (e.g. car drivers - looking
out for motorcyclists better; taking special care when turning across lanes ).

Just a few thoughts.

Cheers,
Viking

[rastuscat]

New job for me. Hence my OP.

[Luckylegs]

New job for me. Hence my OP.

Cool and more power to you, but... if your involved in anything that will become mandatory then you can stick your safety nazi _ _ _ _ where the sun doesn't shine. You'll just be becoming "one of them" rather than (or more correctly, solely) "one of us"

I'm sorry, I just don't think the situation is that bad


Anyway, another jaga and coke finished, hmmm.... some schnapps this round me thinks

[Berries]

New job for me. Hence my OP.

ACC or NZTA?

[rastuscat]

Road Safety Coordinator for the Selwyn District

[Grumph]

Road Safety Coordinator for the Selwyn District

Ooooh shit, where do I start ? Agricultural machinery on the road in low light situations and no lights...Road works speed restriction signs left in place for days after the work is completed...My local school insisting on pupils using the entrance on the Bealey rd when there's a nice safe back entrance on a quiet street.
If you want a hedge trimmed on a road boundary in Selwyn, no contractor is keen as there's no easy traffic management plan accessible on line - as there is for ChCh. And there's no assistance forthcoming from council staff either - they just tell you to go and read the regs.

Management - from the top - who lie to your face and in court. Councillors who don't give a fuck.

Not a nice place to work.

[Voltaire]

I think the last thing that was made mandatory was crash helmets back in the 70's.

compared to industry whoever makes those sort of decisions has largely sat on their hands for 40 years regarding PPE for riding motorcycles.

If people want to ride around with no gloves or jacket they should get invoiced for the skin grafts....oh hang on they do but its spread about

all the bike owners.

I'd need to see the RCA's for all crashes to see if there is a pattern, which I would imagine is being done but not visible to the public.

I'd like to know how many motor vehicle accidents involve mobile phones talking/texting or the one I saw the other day a plonker holding it

down low and clearly by his driving either reading a map or getting instructions.

So long story short, show me the stats and RCA's and I can make some decisions.

Here are some I have observed:

I don't want a Cruiser as it means I have to ride in groups.

I don't want a powerful bike as there are a lot of them at Star Auctions depot.

Riding at 100 K behind a line of cars is less stressful than picking them off one by one.

Slower bikes give you the sensation of speed.

Track days are good as no one is coming the other way ( however you will need gloves, jacket etc..)

Hands are hard to repair and quite useful.

Beer may increase perception of skill but proven not to.

If you need to lanesplit at speed set your alarm clock earlier.

Spend a day riding in Saigon,Istanbul or London, that will sharpen your skills up, or not.

Its no good expecting others to do things as you have no control over them, but you can control your space ( mostly).

[BMWGSER]

Road Safety Coordinator for the Selwyn District

Well done and good luck in the new role.

[Luckylegs]

Road Safety Coordinator for the Selwyn District

Congrats mate. Given your passion for the subject its a great opportunity - enjoy

[rastuscat]

Ooooh shit, where do I start ? Agricultural machinery on the road in low light situations and no lights...Road works speed restriction signs left in place for days after the work is completed...My local school insisting on pupils using the entrance on the Bealey rd when there's a nice safe back entrance on a quiet street.
If you want a hedge trimmed on a road boundary in Selwyn, no contractor is keen as there's no easy traffic management plan accessible on line - as there is for ChCh. And there's no assistance forthcoming from council staff either - they just tell you to go and read the regs.

Management - from the top - who lie to your face and in court. Councillors who don't give a fuck.

Not a nice place to work.

Thanks for the feedback. Looks like a great opportunity to address some problems.

[Viking01]

Road Safety Coordinator for the Selwyn District

Rastus,
Morning. Congratulations on the new role. Well done.

So now that your new role has been announced, can I ask a couple of
quick questions:

1. Is this new role with the Council itself (as opposed to NZTA or ACC) ?

I saw a (possibly) similar role advertised online for Porirua City Council,
and that JD indicated "working for the Council" but liaising with various
organisations such as NZTA and ACC.

2. Will your focus be limited to just motorcycles and motorcycle safety ?

Or will it now include other vehicle types as well ? And include other
aspects of safety such as roading ?

Your initial post talked just about motorcyclists, which led me to think it
was a more motorcyclist centric role. But your new role (job title) seems
to indicate a much wider perspective.

Just interested.

Cheers,
Viking

[rastuscat]

Rastus,
Morning. Congratulations on the new role. Well done.

So now that your new role has been announced, can I ask a couple of
quick questions:

1. Is this new role with the Council itself (as opposed to NZTA or ACC) ?

I saw a (possibly) similar role advertised online for Porirua City Council,
and that JD indicated "working for the Council" but liaising with various
organisations such as NZTA and ACC.

2. Will your focus be limited to just motorcycles and motorcycle safety ?

Or will it now include other vehicle types as well ? And include other
aspects of safety such as roading ?

Your initial post talked just about motorcyclists, which led me to think it
was a more motorcyclist centric role. But your new role (job title) seems
to indicate a much wider perspective.

Just interested.

Cheers,
Viking

The RSC positions are joint funded by the council and NZTA.

Basically a liaison role between various Govt, local body, community organisations.

Motorcycle safety is one of Selwyns challenges, amongst others. Another biggie is intersections.

[caspernz]

The original post is fair enough, how do we unite a diverse group for a common goal? The carrot and stick routine might work. In my workplace we run a bonus scheme, amounts to a significant number if one achieves a few KPIs, which are really quite attainable. The target was safer driving, broken down into various smaller targets. Not perfect of course, but it brought all bar a couple of the guys'n'gals into line with the original company intent.

For bikers, unless we can get some benefit for the wallet, plenty of riders will just shrug their shoulders and carry on as usual. I'd love to know what percentage of actual riders (not just license holders) have partaken in the Rideforever courses.

Congrats on your new role Pete

[Akzle]

. I'd love to know what percentage of actual riders (not just license holders) have partaken in the Rideforever courses.

Congrats on your new role Pete

which is one of my bug bears about you iam folks. requiring a driving license and vehicle license, neither of which is indiciative of, nor inducive to, not-being-a-fuckwit-on-the-road.

but y'know... safety and shit.